Comments on: Update on Falsifiability of Climate Predictions http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4352 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: David B. Benson http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4352&cpage=1#comment-9574 David B. Benson Fri, 21 Mar 2008 18:48:46 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4352#comment-9574 For the record, I agree with Ian Castles's interpretation. For the record, I agree with Ian Castles’s interpretation.

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By: Ian Castles http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4352&cpage=1#comment-9573 Ian Castles Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:36:05 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4352#comment-9573 David Benson, In one of your postings on 17 March you cited an article by Rahmstorf et al in ‘Science’ (4 May 2007), in which observations since 1990 of global temperature were compared with IPCC projections. The authors of this article misunderstood the basis of the ‘projections’ for 1990-2000 in the IPCC’s Third Assessment Report (2000). As explained in the Special Report on Emissions Scenarios (2000), ‘the 1990 and 2000 emissions scenarios were standardized in all the SRES scenarios, with emissions diverging after the year 2000′ (Box 5.1, p. 243). The SRES went on to explain that ‘The standardized scenarios share the same values for emissions in both 1990 and 2000′, and that ‘The 1990 and 2000 emissions estimates for all gases, except SO2, were set to be equal to the initial values in the unadjusted four marker scenarios.’ So, for example, the projections for emissions AND FOR TEMPERATURE for the A1FI scenario, which was not a marker, were set BY ASSUMPTION as equal to those of the average of the four markers. As an indication of the possible scale of the effect of this procedure, the A1FI scenario assumed that the global energy supply from coal would increase by 30% between 1990 and 2000, compared with an increase of about 5% for the A1B and B1 scenarios. . So when Rahmstorf et al concluded that ALL OF the IPCC projections underestimated the temperature rise, they were not in fact evaluating the performance of models against observations - at least as far as the 1990-2000 period was concerned (the greater part of the comparison). For this period, the outputs of the individual models were discarded in favour of an average of a subset of the models. Contrary to the claims in Rahmstorf et al (2007), the analysis does not in fact represent an evaluation of the IPCC models for the 1990-2000 decade. For the period 2000-2020, the IPCC models projected an increase of about 0.2 C per decade, as shown in Lucia's graphic above. David Benson, In one of your postings on 17 March you cited an article by Rahmstorf et al in ‘Science’ (4 May 2007), in which observations since 1990 of global temperature were compared with IPCC projections.

The authors of this article misunderstood the basis of the ‘projections’ for 1990-2000 in the IPCC’s Third Assessment Report (2000). As explained in the Special Report on Emissions Scenarios (2000), ‘the 1990 and 2000 emissions scenarios were standardized in all the SRES scenarios, with emissions diverging after the year 2000′ (Box 5.1, p. 243).

The SRES went on to explain that ‘The standardized scenarios share the same values for emissions in both 1990 and 2000′, and that ‘The 1990 and 2000 emissions estimates for all gases, except SO2, were set to be equal to the initial values in the unadjusted four marker scenarios.’ So, for example, the projections for emissions AND FOR TEMPERATURE for the A1FI scenario, which was not a marker, were set BY ASSUMPTION as equal to those of the average of the four markers.

As an indication of the possible scale of the effect of this procedure, the A1FI scenario assumed that the global energy supply from coal would increase by 30% between 1990 and 2000, compared with an increase of about 5% for the A1B and B1 scenarios.
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So when Rahmstorf et al concluded that ALL OF the IPCC projections underestimated the temperature rise, they were not in fact evaluating the performance of models against observations – at least as far as the 1990-2000 period was concerned (the greater part of the comparison). For this period, the outputs of the individual models were discarded in favour of an average of a subset of the models.

Contrary to the claims in Rahmstorf et al (2007), the analysis does not in fact represent an evaluation of the IPCC models for the 1990-2000 decade. For the period 2000-2020, the IPCC models projected an increase of about 0.2 C per decade, as shown in Lucia’s graphic above.

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By: David B. Benson http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4352&cpage=1#comment-9572 David B. Benson Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:39:26 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4352#comment-9572 Ian Castles --- Thanks for the correction. Ian Castles — Thanks for the correction.

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By: Ian Castles http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4352&cpage=1#comment-9571 Ian Castles Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:19:00 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4352#comment-9571 David Benson's opinion that the IPCC's TAR predictions were 'a bit on the low side' because the Panel 'didn't really see the rapid industrialization of India and especially China coming' is mistaken on several counts. The main one is that the IPCC scenario with the highest projections of growth in output and rapidity of industrialisation - the A1 scenario - predicted the LOWEST increase in temperatures, and vice versa: see Table II.4 in Appendix II to 'Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis'. David Benson’s opinion that the IPCC’s TAR predictions were ‘a bit on the low side’ because the Panel ‘didn’t really see the rapid industrialization of India and especially China coming’ is mistaken on several counts.

The main one is that the IPCC scenario with the highest projections of growth in output and rapidity of industrialisation – the A1 scenario – predicted the LOWEST increase in temperatures, and vice versa: see Table II.4 in Appendix II to ‘Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis’.

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By: Ian Castles http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4352&cpage=1#comment-9570 Ian Castles Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:17:07 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4352#comment-9570 David Benson's opinion that the IPCC's TAR predictions were 'a bit on the low side' because the Panel 'didn't really see the rapid industrialization of India and especially China coming' is mistaken on several counts. The main one is that the IPCC scenario with the highest projections of growth in output and rapidity of industrialisation - the A1 scenario - predicted the LOWEST increase in temperatures, and vice versa: see Table II.4 in Appendix II to 'Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis'. David Benson’s opinion that the IPCC’s TAR predictions were ‘a bit on the low side’ because the Panel ‘didn’t really see the rapid industrialization of India and especially China coming’ is mistaken on several counts.

The main one is that the IPCC scenario with the highest projections of growth in output and rapidity of industrialisation – the A1 scenario – predicted the LOWEST increase in temperatures, and vice versa: see Table II.4 in Appendix II to ‘Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis’.

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By: Sylvain http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4352&cpage=1#comment-9569 Sylvain Wed, 19 Mar 2008 05:29:40 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4352#comment-9569 In climate science it is not enough to support the consensus. To not be demonize one must embrace the religion. Just like in any other religion, one cannot doubt or even question anything from the sacred book, one must accept everything for the better or the worst. After all the bible wasn't written by men it was written the messengers of god. Only the real climate scientists, speaking the thruth of the AR4, have the luxury to call another scientist works heresy and do so by the sole will of his words. After all his words are his commands. In climate science it is not enough to support the consensus. To not be demonize one must embrace the religion.

Just like in any other religion, one cannot doubt or even question anything from the sacred book, one must accept everything for the better or the worst. After all the bible wasn’t written by men it was written the messengers of god.

Only the real climate scientists, speaking the thruth of the AR4, have the luxury to call another scientist works heresy and do so by the sole will of his words. After all his words are his commands.

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By: David B. Benson http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4352&cpage=1#comment-9568 David B. Benson Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:34:37 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4352#comment-9568 Roger Pielke, Jr. --- Take the time to read Tamino's posts that I linked above, and also the Skeptical Science link. I think you'll find that these are reasonably consistent with the IPCC TAR predictions, which seem to be a bit on the low side. Which occurred, I opine, because IPCC didn't really see the rapid industrialization of India and especially China coming... Roger Pielke, Jr. — Take the time to read Tamino’s posts that I linked above, and also the Skeptical Science link. I think you’ll find that these are reasonably consistent with the IPCC TAR predictions, which seem to be a bit on the low side.

Which occurred, I opine, because IPCC didn’t really see the rapid industrialization of India and especially China coming…

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By: Roger Pielke, Jr. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4352&cpage=1#comment-9567 Roger Pielke, Jr. Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:43:58 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4352#comment-9567 William- Lucia is saying that recent trends are inconsistent with the IPCC prediction. You are saying that they are in fact consistent. She has showed her work. You have showed a little blog attitude and nothing more. If you want to teach us something, then please just show the quantitative basis behind your claims that recent trends are consistent with IPCC predictions, rather than just asserting that claim without evidence. I'd guess you won't, but if you do we'll highlight your work here. William-

Lucia is saying that recent trends are inconsistent with the IPCC prediction. You are saying that they are in fact consistent. She has showed her work. You have showed a little blog attitude and nothing more.

If you want to teach us something, then please just show the quantitative basis behind your claims that recent trends are consistent with IPCC predictions, rather than just asserting that claim without evidence. I’d guess you won’t, but if you do we’ll highlight your work here.

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By: David B. Benson http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4352&cpage=1#comment-9566 David B. Benson Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:25:46 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4352#comment-9566 Steve Bloom noticed this http://www.skepticalscience.com/Comparing-IPCC-projections-to-observations.html commentary on a paper in "Science" last May. The conclusion, for temperature, is that IPCC TAR was on the low side of the actual temperature trend. Steve Bloom noticed this

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Comparing-IPCC-projections-to-observations.html

commentary on a paper in “Science” last May. The conclusion, for temperature, is that IPCC TAR was on the low side of the actual temperature trend.

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By: wmconnolley http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4352&cpage=1#comment-9565 wmconnolley Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:10:26 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4352#comment-9565 Oops, sorry for the repeat, your server was throwing out odd error messages: "Rebuild failed: Writing to '/home/html/prometheus/archives/author_pielke_jr_r/index.html.new' failed: Opening local file '/home/html/prometheus/archives/author_pielke_jr_r/index.html.new' failed: Permission denied". Do please delete the dupl, and this. Oops, sorry for the repeat, your server was throwing out odd error messages: “Rebuild failed: Writing to ‘/home/html/prometheus/archives/author_pielke_jr_r/index.html.new’ failed: Opening local file ‘/home/html/prometheus/archives/author_pielke_jr_r/index.html.new’ failed: Permission denied”. Do please delete the dupl, and this.

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