Comments on: Jim Hansen’s Refusal to Testify http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3887 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Steve Hemphill http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3887&cpage=1#comment-5235 Steve Hemphill Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:51:35 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3887#comment-5235 Coby - 1. I agree with you. Sort of. If warming continues at this rate we may be at a climate like the last time we were this warm - the pliocene where equatorial temperatures were ... uh, well ... about the same as they are now. 2. Anthropogenic causes may in fact be the primary cause of climate change, but most of it is not from increasing CO2. 3. We don't know that it will be a problem, however we should probably increase research to find out. We're in the elementary school phase of deciphering climate. Remember Manhattan? (and not the one in New York) It's called for now, in my opinion. Much cheaper than some of the other (economy choking) alternatives... A question for you though. Do you really think an 80 foot difference in sea level would not have a significant effect on regional climates? Coby -

1. I agree with you. Sort of. If warming continues at this rate we may be at a climate like the last time we were this warm – the pliocene where equatorial temperatures were … uh, well … about the same as they are now.

2. Anthropogenic causes may in fact be the primary cause of climate change, but most of it is not from increasing CO2.

3. We don’t know that it will be a problem, however we should probably increase research to find out. We’re in the elementary school phase of deciphering climate. Remember Manhattan? (and not the one in New York) It’s called for now, in my opinion. Much cheaper than some of the other (economy choking) alternatives…

A question for you though. Do you really think an 80 foot difference in sea level would not have a significant effect on regional climates?

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By: Sylvain http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3887&cpage=1#comment-5234 Sylvain Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:37:54 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3887#comment-5234 "the planet is warming rapidly; the primary causes are anthropogenic; if the warming continues at this rate it represents a serious problem." Here are were the consensus end from what I read: 1-)The planet has warmed by 0.6°C: Rapidly? Unprecedented ?this is yet to be settled. 2-)Humans are contributing: Although attribution is yet to be settled. Attribution is not required for us to adapt. 3-)CO2 is rising and now stand at about 380ppmv. The level of the forcing has yet to be settle. I have some questions although they may be off topics: (if they you can email me) Are oil industries dumb enough to not research for ways to either reduce the CO2 emission (either by better efficiency or by capturing it) or even to invest in alternate energies like wind power or solar power or anything else? From what I understand of the AGW community all the focus of policy makers should be towards reducing CO2 emission. I also understand that even if we could cut all CO2 emission the earth would still warm, so we would certainly not put an end to catastrophic events like hurricanes, flood, drought or anything else. Understanding that aren't better to research greener technologies so they would get cheaper than oil and adapt to these events so they wouldn't cause as much damage, instead of only focusing on CO2 as it seems to be the case? “the planet is warming rapidly; the primary causes are anthropogenic; if the warming continues at this rate it represents a serious problem.”

Here are were the consensus end from what I read:
1-)The planet has warmed by 0.6°C: Rapidly? Unprecedented ?this is yet to be settled.
2-)Humans are contributing: Although attribution is yet to be settled. Attribution is not required for us to adapt.
3-)CO2 is rising and now stand at about 380ppmv. The level of the forcing has yet to be settle.

I have some questions although they may be off topics: (if they you can email me)

Are oil industries dumb enough to not research for ways to either reduce the CO2 emission (either by better efficiency or by capturing it) or even to invest in alternate energies like wind power or solar power or anything else?

From what I understand of the AGW community all the focus of policy makers should be towards reducing CO2 emission. I also understand that even if we could cut all CO2 emission the earth would still warm, so we would certainly not put an end to catastrophic events like hurricanes, flood, drought or anything else. Understanding that aren’t better to research greener technologies so they would get cheaper than oil and adapt to these events so they wouldn’t cause as much damage, instead of only focusing on CO2 as it seems to be the case?

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By: McCall http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3887&cpage=1#comment-5233 McCall Mon, 24 Jul 2006 04:34:18 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3887#comment-5233 One can presume the this scientist also objected to the makeup of the NAS panel on this issue -- same skeptic on both? Did the Heinz-Foundation Award Winner publically voice objection to this as well? One can presume the this scientist also objected to the makeup of the NAS panel on this issue — same skeptic on both? Did the Heinz-Foundation Award Winner publically voice objection to this as well?

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By: Mark Bahner http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3887&cpage=1#comment-5232 Mark Bahner Mon, 24 Jul 2006 02:26:57 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3887#comment-5232 "It only means that the central questions of this debate, the ones that relate most directly to wise policy decisions, are settled." This is clearly false. The most important policy-related question is, "If governments don't do anything, what will be the future CO2 emissions and atmospheric concentrations, methane atmospheric concentrations, and resultant temperature increases?" Those questions are clearly not settled. The simple fact is that the IPCC has *never* made any scientifically valid predictions for any of those parameters, and likely never will. “It only means that the central questions of this debate, the ones that relate most directly to wise policy decisions, are settled.”

This is clearly false. The most important policy-related question is, “If governments don’t do anything, what will be the future CO2 emissions and atmospheric concentrations, methane atmospheric concentrations, and resultant temperature increases?”

Those questions are clearly not settled. The simple fact is that the IPCC has *never* made any scientifically valid predictions for any of those parameters, and likely never will.

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By: coby http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3887&cpage=1#comment-5231 coby Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:12:17 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3887#comment-5231 "Everything is settled". Clearly such a statement requires context, as it can not truly mean "everything". I don't yet know what I will have for lunch today, so there is the single counter example to falsify a literal interpretation. I think it is pretty clear that this does not even mean everything in climate science is settled, that is only slightly less of a ridiculous interpretation. It only means that the central questions of this debate, the ones that relate most directly to wise policy decisions, are settled. That is: the planet is warming rapidly; the primary causes are anthropogenic; if the warming continues at this rate it represents a serious problem. One of the latest contrarian talking points is demolishing this strawman interpretation that "everything" is settled with points like we don't know exactly how much or how fast sea levels will rise. The same thing applies to "consensus". It is a very broad consensus on a very focus set of points, those I listed above. “Everything is settled”.

Clearly such a statement requires context, as it can not truly mean “everything”. I don’t yet know what I will have for lunch today, so there is the single counter example to falsify a literal interpretation.

I think it is pretty clear that this does not even mean everything in climate science is settled, that is only slightly less of a ridiculous interpretation. It only means that the central questions of this debate, the ones that relate most directly to wise policy decisions, are settled. That is: the planet is warming rapidly; the primary causes are anthropogenic; if the warming continues at this rate it represents a serious problem.

One of the latest contrarian talking points is demolishing this strawman interpretation that “everything” is settled with points like we don’t know exactly how much or how fast sea levels will rise.

The same thing applies to “consensus”. It is a very broad consensus on a very focus set of points, those I listed above.

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By: Sylvain http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3887&cpage=1#comment-5230 Sylvain Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:56:34 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3887#comment-5230 I believe that it is really annoying that every one who has a contrarian view is labeled has being in it for money from the oil industries. That I know of, neither of these scientists, Roger Pielke sr, Richard Lindzen, John Christy, Will Gray, Steve McIntyre, etc, have anything to do with oil industry. They believe for the most part in AGW. If the science is settle, and if GCM's are performing so well, as some people say, shouldn't we stop or reduce the funding of climate research so we could start to work on the problem. What is strange is that these people who says, that everything is settle and that they know what will happen, will also say that more money is needed into researching/predicting climate because we don't know enough about it. I believe that it is really annoying that every one who has a contrarian view is labeled has being in it for money from the oil industries.

That I know of, neither of these scientists, Roger Pielke sr, Richard Lindzen, John Christy, Will Gray, Steve McIntyre, etc, have anything to do with oil industry. They believe for the most part in AGW.

If the science is settle, and if GCM’s are performing so well, as some people say, shouldn’t we stop or reduce the funding of climate research so we could start to work on the problem.

What is strange is that these people who says, that everything is settle and that they know what will happen, will also say that more money is needed into researching/predicting climate because we don’t know enough about it.

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By: Jim Clarke http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3887&cpage=1#comment-5229 Jim Clarke Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:56:21 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3887#comment-5229 ""The function of the contrarians is to obfuscate what is known, so as to keep the public confused and allow special interests to continue to reap short-term profits, to the detriment of the long-term economic well-being of the nation," he said." This is a most disturbing statement coming from a leading authority on anthroprogenic climate change. While editorialists have been making similar,totally unfounded claims for over a decade, a scientist should know better. Such a remark indicates that Hansen is either loosing his cool, loosing the debate or both. “”The function of the contrarians is to obfuscate what is known, so as to keep the public confused and allow special interests to continue to reap short-term profits, to the detriment of the long-term economic well-being of the nation,” he said.”

This is a most disturbing statement coming from a leading authority on anthroprogenic climate change. While editorialists have been making similar,totally unfounded claims for over a decade, a scientist should know better. Such a remark indicates that Hansen is either loosing his cool, loosing the debate or both.

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By: Steve Hemphill http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3887&cpage=1#comment-5228 Steve Hemphill Sat, 22 Jul 2006 15:05:03 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3887#comment-5228 One has to wonder if Hansen has fallen into the same abyss as those defending MBH98. It would be so much more constructive if Mann would just admit that analysis was wrong. That he won't seems to indicate that it was purposely wrong, and this apparent ploy by Hansen gives even more credence to the Wegman report, as Hansen looks to have jumped in behind the circled wagons. One has to wonder if Hansen has fallen into the same abyss as those defending MBH98. It would be so much more constructive if Mann would just admit that analysis was wrong. That he won’t seems to indicate that it was purposely wrong, and this apparent ploy by Hansen gives even more credence to the Wegman report, as Hansen looks to have jumped in behind the circled wagons.

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By: Steve Bloom http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3887&cpage=1#comment-5227 Steve Bloom Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:17:50 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3887#comment-5227 I don't especially blame Hansen for taking the reported stance after the bait and switch that Christy (along with Spencer) pulled earlier this year. I don’t especially blame Hansen for taking the reported stance after the bait and switch that Christy (along with Spencer) pulled earlier this year.

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By: B. Stroeher http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3887&cpage=1#comment-5226 B. Stroeher Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:59:05 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3887#comment-5226 What’s going on in the global warming scene in the US ? Mann refused this week to testify before the Barton committee as his hockey-stick was the subject of the hearing . He had the unique opportunity to defend his thesis. And now Hansen. Maybe this is additional stuff for an additionel analysis by Prof. Wegmann What’s going on in the global warming scene in the US ?

Mann refused this week to testify before the Barton committee as his hockey-stick was the subject of the hearing . He had the unique opportunity to defend his thesis.

And now Hansen.

Maybe this is additional stuff for an additionel analysis by Prof. Wegmann

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