Comments on: What the CCSP Extremes Report Really Says http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4466 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Alan Sullivan http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4466&cpage=1#comment-10464 Alan Sullivan Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:20:02 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/what-the-ccsp-extremes-report-really-says-4466#comment-10464 It's a pity that genuflections to climate mitigation are required for protecting a researcher from aspersions. One commenter inferred "we are at optimum." Perhaps. But I think the "climate debate" has proven only one thing, so far: people are frightened of change. That's pretty funny, when politicians claim that "change" is what people want. It’s a pity that genuflections to climate mitigation are required for protecting a researcher from aspersions.

One commenter inferred “we are at optimum.” Perhaps. But I think the “climate debate” has proven only one thing, so far: people are frightened of change.

That’s pretty funny, when politicians claim that “change” is what people want.

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By: Alan Sullivan http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4466&cpage=1#comment-10463 Alan Sullivan Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:17:27 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/what-the-ccsp-extremes-report-really-says-4466#comment-10463 It's a pity that genuflections to climate mitigation are required for protecting a researcher from aspersions. One commenter inferred "we are at the optimum." Perhaps. But I think the "climate debate" has proven only one thing, so far: people are frightened of change. That's pretty funny, when politicians claim that "change" is what people want. It’s a pity that genuflections to climate mitigation are required for protecting a researcher from aspersions.

One commenter inferred “we are at the optimum.” Perhaps. But I think the “climate debate” has proven only one thing, so far: people are frightened of change.

That’s pretty funny, when politicians claim that “change” is what people want.

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By: Roger Pielke, Jr. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4466&cpage=1#comment-10462 Roger Pielke, Jr. Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:42:12 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/what-the-ccsp-extremes-report-really-says-4466#comment-10462 Martin- Sorry for the delay in responding. 1. Sure, there are many different ways to express wealth. I encourage you to play with different metrics and see if it leads to significantly different results than we arrived at -- one reason why there has been little debate on this subject is that they do not. 2. It is not available to my knowledge. Thanks. Martin- Sorry for the delay in responding.

1. Sure, there are many different ways to express wealth. I encourage you to play with different metrics and see if it leads to significantly different results than we arrived at — one reason why there has been little debate on this subject is that they do not.

2. It is not available to my knowledge.

Thanks.

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By: Martin http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4466&cpage=1#comment-10461 Martin Mon, 23 Jun 2008 02:31:04 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/what-the-ccsp-extremes-report-really-says-4466#comment-10461 Roger, Two questions: First, regarding normalization: you and I could disagree strongly on how to express wealth in real terms (net of price level changes) or maybe on how to calculate the exposed wealth time series. But in each case we create an damages time series which is in terms of real wealth losses per unit of exposed wealth. Is that a disagreement about normalization? (Or must a disagreement about normalization be more fundamental such as whether damages should be expressed per unit of exposed wealth?) Second, is the data used in the appendix of the CCSP report publicly available for internet access? If so, do you have the URLs? Roger,

Two questions: First, regarding normalization: you and I could disagree strongly on how to express wealth in real terms (net of price level changes) or maybe on how to calculate the exposed wealth time series. But in each case we create an damages time series which is in terms of real wealth losses per unit of exposed wealth. Is that a disagreement about normalization? (Or must a disagreement about normalization be more fundamental such as whether damages should be expressed per unit of exposed wealth?)

Second, is the data used in the appendix of the CCSP report publicly available for internet access? If so, do you have the URLs?

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By: Jim Clarke http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4466&cpage=1#comment-10460 Jim Clarke Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:55:06 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/what-the-ccsp-extremes-report-really-says-4466#comment-10460 Roger, I just read a very interesting article by Vinod K. Dar, an energy industry specialist giving a global perspective of energy use and climate change. In the article, he points out that a large and growing part of the world is leaning more towards the possibility of a global cooling trend, in contrast to the Western view of unstoppable global warming. Either way, he argues that the need for energy is and will outweigh any moral or ethical concerns about changing the climate. He concludes: “The world has neither the capacity nor the will to change the trajectory of the global climate whether it’s warming, cooling or oscillating. Both climate belief systems are a form of intellectual and emotional self indulgence by elites. They are a distraction from reality, which is coping with and benefiting from whatever change in climate occurs.” (...) “Contingency planning should entail strategic responses to a warming globe, a cooling globe and a globe whose climate reverberates with laughter at human hubris. Human beings are miserable at forecasting but they are pretty good at improvising and adapting. Why not focus on the strength rather than invest so heavily in the weakness?” I found the entire article refreshingly realistic on the future of energy consumption and recommend a complete read: http://www.rightsidenews.com/200806181211/global-warming/as-the-earth-cools-what-does-it-mean-for-the-energy-industry.html Certainly one can argue over any given detail, but I found his conclusion of adaptation over mitigation, most compelling. While you state that “…anthropogenic climate change is real, and deserving of significant attention to both adaptation and mitigation.", how do you convince a developing world to mitigate their carbon emissions when they do not even hold the same scientific beliefs as the West and the populace demands electricity? Even in the west, where the population largely accepts the idea of warming, people are only willing to sacrifice minimally. In light of the fact that, currently, the globe is not warming and the CCSP report does not find any evidence of increasing weather extremes in the US, is obtaining significant carbon mitigation realistic in this country, much less anywhere else in the world? Roger,

I just read a very interesting article by Vinod K. Dar, an energy industry specialist giving a global perspective of energy use and climate change. In the article, he points out that a large and growing part of the world is leaning more towards the possibility of a global cooling trend, in contrast to the Western view of unstoppable global warming. Either way, he argues that the need for energy is and will outweigh any moral or ethical concerns about changing the climate. He concludes:

“The world has neither the capacity nor the will to change the trajectory of the global climate whether it’s warming, cooling or oscillating. Both climate belief systems are a form of intellectual and emotional self indulgence by elites. They are a distraction from reality, which is coping with and benefiting from whatever change in climate occurs.” (…) “Contingency planning should entail strategic responses to a warming globe, a cooling globe and a globe whose climate reverberates with laughter at human hubris. Human beings are miserable at forecasting but they are pretty good at improvising and adapting. Why not focus on the strength rather than invest so heavily in the weakness?”

I found the entire article refreshingly realistic on the future of energy consumption and recommend a complete read:

http://www.rightsidenews.com/200806181211/global-warming/as-the-earth-cools-what-does-it-mean-for-the-energy-industry.html

Certainly one can argue over any given detail, but I found his conclusion of adaptation over mitigation, most compelling. While you state that “…anthropogenic climate change is real, and deserving of significant attention to both adaptation and mitigation.”, how do you convince a developing world to mitigate their carbon emissions when they do not even hold the same scientific beliefs as the West and the populace demands electricity? Even in the west, where the population largely accepts the idea of warming, people are only willing to sacrifice minimally. In light of the fact that, currently, the globe is not warming and the CCSP report does not find any evidence of increasing weather extremes in the US, is obtaining significant carbon mitigation realistic in this country, much less anywhere else in the world?

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By: JamesG http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4466&cpage=1#comment-10459 JamesG Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:18:36 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/what-the-ccsp-extremes-report-really-says-4466#comment-10459 I'm presuming that these grave consequences, since they are clearly not based on the actual statistical trends must therefore be based on the climate models which, as every climate modeler knows and most will say, are not at all reliable for regional projections. What a waste of time, money and trees for the sake of tawdry politicking. It's fun to speculate what they might have said about a cooling world. Somehow I think it would be just as pessimistic. Which would mean of course that we are at the optimum now. I’m presuming that these grave consequences, since they are clearly not based on the actual statistical trends must therefore be based on the climate models which, as every climate modeler knows and most will say, are not at all reliable for regional projections. What a waste of time, money and trees for the sake of tawdry politicking.

It’s fun to speculate what they might have said about a cooling world. Somehow I think it would be just as pessimistic. Which would mean of course that we are at the optimum now.

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By: Sylvain http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4466&cpage=1#comment-10458 Sylvain Fri, 20 Jun 2008 05:32:25 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/what-the-ccsp-extremes-report-really-says-4466#comment-10458 "Finally, let me emphasize that anthropogenic climate change is real, and deserving of significant attention to both adaptation and mitigation." Maybe you should put it bold, italic and larger. I believe that some people might chose not to see it. “Finally, let me emphasize that anthropogenic climate change is real, and deserving of significant attention to both adaptation and mitigation.”

Maybe you should put it bold, italic and larger. I believe that some people might chose not to see it.

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