Comments on: Fiscal Caution on NASA’s New Moon Plans http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4015 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: ARVAKYR http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4015&cpage=1#comment-7047 ARVAKYR Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:48:04 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4015#comment-7047 In referring to our "return to the Moon" mission: Does anyone remember the Swedish colony in N.America....OH ! In referring to our “return to the Moon” mission:

Does anyone remember the Swedish colony in N.America….OH !

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By: Steve http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4015&cpage=1#comment-7046 Steve Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:53:10 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4015#comment-7046 Being an advocate of space travel, a base on the moon is always going to get my support. However Roger is correct to highlight the problems of accurately predicting costs, of course this is not just a NASA problem. it is a problem that seems to affect any extremely large organisation (not limited to governments either). Isn't it time though to solve two problems that have been raised, fiscal responsibility (hard) and neglect of science (a bit easier). Get NASA back to its core competences and transfer a lot of its earth science responsibilities and budget to the likes of NOAA etc. That way if NASA wants to be in the satellite launch business, which is now mature and efficient, then they will have to compete on price. If they don't then that's OK they can concentrate on things that are a lot harder to do where the commercial sector has no competence, manned space flight and habitation. Either way this should bring benefits and would make it more obvious that political decisions were affecting scientific research. Yes I know this probably isn't the place for this discussion but it's the first time back to this site for a long time so cut me some slack guys. Being an advocate of space travel, a base on the moon is always going to get my support. However Roger is correct to highlight the problems of accurately predicting costs, of course this is not just a NASA problem. it is a problem that seems to affect any extremely large organisation (not limited to governments either).

Isn’t it time though to solve two problems that have been raised, fiscal responsibility (hard) and neglect of science (a bit easier). Get NASA back to its core competences and transfer a lot of its earth science responsibilities and budget to the likes of NOAA etc.

That way if NASA wants to be in the satellite launch business, which is now mature and efficient, then they will have to compete on price. If they don’t then that’s OK they can concentrate on things that are a lot harder to do where the commercial sector has no competence, manned space flight and habitation.

Either way this should bring benefits and would make it more obvious that political decisions were affecting scientific research.

Yes I know this probably isn’t the place for this discussion but it’s the first time back to this site for a long time so cut me some slack guys.

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By: Roger Pielke, Jr. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4015&cpage=1#comment-7045 Roger Pielke, Jr. Fri, 08 Dec 2006 01:36:11 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4015#comment-7045 Tom- Thanks. I have absolutely nothing positive to say about the Bush Administration. It will probably be discussed in history books as the worst presidency ever. However, on space policy I see very little influence of the current administration. NASA is following a vision for human colonization that goes back to Werner von Braun and was codified in policy plans in the Apollo aftermath and at many points since. IMO, this has far more to do with iron triangles than who is in the White House. See: Pielke Jr., R. A., 1993: A Reappraisal of the Space Shuttle Program. Space Policy, May, 133-157. http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/admin/publication_files/1993.03.pdf Thanks! Tom-

Thanks. I have absolutely nothing positive to say about the Bush Administration. It will probably be discussed in history books as the worst presidency ever.

However, on space policy I see very little influence of the current administration. NASA is following a vision for human colonization that goes back to Werner von Braun and was codified in policy plans in the Apollo aftermath and at many points since. IMO, this has far more to do with iron triangles than who is in the White House.

See:

Pielke Jr., R. A., 1993: A Reappraisal of the Space Shuttle Program. Space Policy, May, 133-157.
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/admin/publication_files/1993.03.pdf

Thanks!

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By: Steve Hemphill http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4015&cpage=1#comment-7044 Steve Hemphill Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:24:35 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4015#comment-7044 Tokyotom - It is indeed regrettable that the Bush administration is cutting useful satellite programs. However, to send people to space and back is of no use. Not until they go on one way trips to other worlds need we spend that kind of money again. The Space Station is as much a waste of money as is the Iraq war (just not quite as big). A manned settlement on the moon will waste several times what those two previous record boondoggles have cost (so far anyway). As I mentioned, we could have given virtually everyone on Earth good drinking water for less than we spent on the Iraq war. Tokyotom -

It is indeed regrettable that the Bush administration is cutting useful satellite programs. However, to send people to space and back is of no use. Not until they go on one way trips to other worlds need we spend that kind of money again. The Space Station is as much a waste of money as is the Iraq war (just not quite as big). A manned settlement on the moon will waste several times what those two previous record boondoggles have cost (so far anyway).

As I mentioned, we could have given virtually everyone on Earth good drinking water for less than we spent on the Iraq war.

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By: TokyoTom http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4015&cpage=1#comment-7043 TokyoTom Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:06:52 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4015#comment-7043 Roger, don't forget that this is the Bush administration. They are cutting useful Earth-observing satellites and moving focus away from the space station as well. Why? Isn't it simply ego - unwillingness to stand on the sidelines as other natons announce lunar plans? Given that the expenditures will not come during the Bush administration, he has little to lose but bragging rights to protect by announcing a US lunar program. Roger, don’t forget that this is the Bush administration. They are cutting useful Earth-observing satellites and moving focus away from the space station as well. Why? Isn’t it simply ego – unwillingness to stand on the sidelines as other natons announce lunar plans? Given that the expenditures will not come during the Bush administration, he has little to lose but bragging rights to protect by announcing a US lunar program.

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By: Roger Pielke, Jr. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4015&cpage=1#comment-7042 Roger Pielke, Jr. Tue, 05 Dec 2006 21:05:14 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4015#comment-7042 Thanks David- Good catch! Bad writing on my part .. ~2020-1969 = 50 years. Will fix. Thanks David- Good catch! Bad writing on my part .. ~2020-1969 = 50 years. Will fix.

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By: David Bruggeman http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4015&cpage=1#comment-7041 David Bruggeman Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:43:37 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4015#comment-7041 "The lack of such oversight is one reason why the U.S. human space flight program in only now discussing catching up to where it was 50 years ago." December 1956...Nobody had managed to get a satellite up by this point. Sputnik was 10 months away. That aside, this is an extension of the "go as you pay" perspective that underlies the Vision for Space Exploration. That, in turn, depends on large technological systems being completed on time and retired on time. Which has happened approximately...never. Why the futility of this hadn't sunk in from the continued problems with the failed public-private partnerships behind the next generation reusable vehicles we don't have yet. Where are the flying cars, indeed. “The lack of such oversight is one reason why the U.S. human space flight program in only now discussing catching up to where it was 50 years ago.”

December 1956…Nobody had managed to get a satellite up by this point. Sputnik was 10 months away.

That aside, this is an extension of the “go as you pay” perspective that underlies the Vision for Space Exploration. That, in turn, depends on large technological systems being completed on time and retired on time. Which has happened approximately…never. Why the futility of this hadn’t sunk in from the continued problems with the failed public-private partnerships behind the next generation reusable vehicles we don’t have yet. Where are the flying cars, indeed.

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By: Steve Hemphill http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4015&cpage=1#comment-7040 Steve Hemphill Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:12:33 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=4015#comment-7040 The Space Station was enough of a boondoggle. This is incredible. Like the Iraq war, the money could be spent to give clean drinking water to virtually everyone on Earth. There is no reason to send anyone on a round trip to space and back. The Space Station was enough of a boondoggle. This is incredible. Like the Iraq war, the money could be spent to give clean drinking water to virtually everyone on Earth. There is no reason to send anyone on a round trip to space and back.

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