Comments on: Positive Feedback Gone Awry http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3510 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Nat Logar http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3510&cpage=1#comment-1234 Nat Logar Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:08:04 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3510#comment-1234 Perhaps the use of the word “circular” was imprecise, although I do believe that this section of the report is weak when you think about justifications. The quoted paragraph says, “Space should play a large role in this national vision,” What is the purpose of giving space, and thus space science, a large role? Increase the science and engineering workforce. What is the report’s reason for having a healthy science and engineering workforce? Increase the progress we make in our space enterprise. While not precisely circular, the writing does suggest that by enhancing the role of space, we can reach the goal of enhancing the health of the space endeavor. I would say that, to make increased prominence in a “national vision” sense realistic, you would have to both dedicate more verbal attention to space and to spend more money. While the authors do not explicitly say this, I interpret an invocation of the Apollo days as a referral to a time when we rapidly increased spending and verbal commitment to the space enterprise. Part of making young people see exciting careers in space includes paying for exciting careers in space. Thus, the argument of the authors becomes that we should foster a healthy space enterprise by dedicating more resources to the space enterprise. This is probably true. However, this point can be made without pointing to projections of a scientist shortage, which, as I wrote in the post, I’m skeptical about for reasons outlined in the posts I provided links to. So, my imprecise use of “circular”, applies to the authors' assertion that we will need more scientists for a healthier space program, and that we need to promote the health of the space program to get more scientists. Since one justifies the other in the paper, Abbey and Lane bring us to a position where we can continually increase resources to the space program as long as they can make the claim that we will not have enough scientists in the future. Perhaps the use of the word “circular” was imprecise, although I do believe that this section of the report is weak when you think about justifications. The quoted paragraph says, “Space should play a large role in this national vision,” What is the purpose of giving space, and thus space science, a large role? Increase the science and engineering workforce.

What is the report’s reason for having a healthy science and engineering workforce? Increase the progress we make in our space enterprise.

While not precisely circular, the writing does suggest that by enhancing the role of space, we can reach the goal of enhancing the health of the space endeavor. I would say that, to make increased prominence in a “national vision” sense realistic, you would have to both dedicate more verbal attention to space and to spend more money. While the authors do not explicitly say this, I interpret an invocation of the Apollo days as a referral to a time when we rapidly increased spending and verbal commitment to the space enterprise. Part of making young people see exciting careers in space includes paying for exciting careers in space. Thus, the argument of the authors becomes that we should foster a healthy space enterprise by dedicating more resources to the space enterprise. This is probably true. However, this point can be made without pointing to projections of a scientist shortage, which, as I wrote in the post, I’m skeptical about for reasons outlined in the posts I provided links to.

So, my imprecise use of “circular”, applies to the authors’ assertion that we will need more scientists for a healthier space program, and that we need to promote the health of the space program to get more scientists. Since one justifies the other in the paper, Abbey and Lane bring us to a position where we can continually increase resources to the space program as long as they can make the claim that we will not have enough scientists in the future.

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By: Daniel Collins http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3510&cpage=1#comment-1233 Daniel Collins Wed, 29 Jun 2005 03:45:09 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3510#comment-1233 I actually disagree. Vision and imagination are powerful forces in stirring up action, be it by president or by poet. (Incidentally, so is fear.) What was the effect of Kennedy's statement of reaching the moon by the end of the decade? Did Cold War fears generate more physics interest? I don't actually know, but I think the catch 22 you see is not really there. I actually disagree. Vision and imagination are powerful forces in stirring up action, be it by president or by poet. (Incidentally, so is fear.) What was the effect of Kennedy’s statement of reaching the moon by the end of the decade? Did Cold War fears generate more physics interest? I don’t actually know, but I think the catch 22 you see is not really there.

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By: G http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3510&cpage=1#comment-1232 G Wed, 29 Jun 2005 01:44:30 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3510#comment-1232 You should read things carefully before you blast them on your web page. I'm having a little trouble finding where the circularity of the report is supposed to come from. If trends continue as expected by those other organizations, there will be a decline in the number of scientists. A projected shortfall of scientists is bad news for the sciences. Makes sense, right? One possible way to help mitigate or reduce this projected decline would be to encourage potential future scientists. One way they thing would be effective is to give space and the space program more attention. How is this circular? You should read things carefully before you blast them on your web page. I’m having a little trouble finding where the circularity of the report is supposed to come from.

If trends continue as expected by those other organizations, there will be a decline in the number of scientists. A projected shortfall of scientists is bad news for the sciences. Makes sense, right?

One possible way to help mitigate or reduce this projected decline would be to encourage potential future scientists. One way they thing would be effective is to give space and the space program more attention.

How is this circular?

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