Comments on: Slouching Toward Scientific McCarthyism http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3730 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Steve Sadlov http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3730&cpage=1#comment-3041 Steve Sadlov Wed, 22 Feb 2006 03:20:58 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3730#comment-3041 Hmmm... no one has refuted or even debated my two items. Interesting .... defeaning silence. Hmmm… no one has refuted or even debated my two items. Interesting …. defeaning silence.

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By: Rabett http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3730&cpage=1#comment-3040 Rabett Sun, 19 Feb 2006 04:21:07 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3730#comment-3040 Dear Double Juan, In short yes, and it is small compared to the amount of CO2 from burning fossil fuel. See, for example http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html about 2/3 the way down the page "Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities. Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1992). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 22 billion tonnes per year (24 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 1998) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2.]. Human activities release more than 150 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 13.2 million tonnes/year)!" Dear Double Juan,

In short yes, and it is small compared to the amount of CO2 from burning fossil fuel. See, for example http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html
about 2/3 the way down the page

“Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1992). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 22 billion tonnes per year (24 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 1998) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2.]. Human activities release more than 150 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes–the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 13.2 million tonnes/year)!”

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By: juandos http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3730&cpage=1#comment-3039 juandos Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:59:50 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3730#comment-3039 ROFLMAO O.K. Let's hear it for the chicken little theory of global warming... Hey! Anyone hear of Montserrat volcano? Ever wonder what the amounts of CO2 coming out of that hell hole? ROFLMAO

O.K. Let’s hear it for the chicken little theory of global warming…

Hey! Anyone hear of Montserrat volcano? Ever wonder what the amounts of CO2 coming out of that hell hole?

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By: Steve Bloom http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3730&cpage=1#comment-3038 Steve Bloom Wed, 15 Feb 2006 20:31:11 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3730#comment-3038 Roger, probably you were already aware of this, but the problem at NOAA may be larger than the hurricane-global warming issue: http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/interference/survey-political-interference-at-noaa-fisheries.html . Also, the correspondent I mentioned states she/he has had some similar experiences, although not as bad, working in an unrelated area. Roger, probably you were already aware of this, but the problem at NOAA may be larger than the hurricane-global warming issue: http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/interference/survey-political-interference-at-noaa-fisheries.html . Also, the correspondent I mentioned states she/he has had some similar experiences, although not as bad, working in an unrelated area.

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By: Blogotional http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3730&cpage=1#comment-3043 Blogotional Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:06:25 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3730#comment-3043 <strong>When Science Stops Being Science...</strong> There is a difference between repeatability, that is to say other labs repeating experiments and achieving the same results, and simply agreeing. When Science Stops Being Science…

There is a difference between repeatability, that is to say other labs repeating experiments and achieving the same results, and simply agreeing.

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By: Steve Bloom http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3730&cpage=1#comment-3037 Steve Bloom Mon, 13 Feb 2006 23:50:03 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3730#comment-3037 (Reposted -- my original try somehow ended up in the wrong thread.) Well, Roger, if that policy doesn't amount to a gag I'm not sure what would. Interestingly, *I* just heard from a NOAA scientist (who very much wishes to remain anonymous, not surprisingly). She/he doesn't work directly on hurricanes, but is close enough to some of those who do to affirm that many of them do think a GW-hurricane connection has been clearly established, but are afraid to speak out about it. (Reposted — my original try somehow ended up in the wrong thread.)

Well, Roger, if that policy doesn’t amount to a gag I’m not sure what would. Interestingly, *I* just heard from a NOAA scientist (who very much wishes to remain anonymous, not surprisingly). She/he doesn’t work directly on hurricanes, but is close enough to some of those who do to affirm that many of them do think a GW-hurricane connection has been clearly established, but are afraid to speak out about it.

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By: Steve Sadlov http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3730&cpage=1#comment-3036 Steve Sadlov Mon, 13 Feb 2006 22:10:45 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3730#comment-3036 Item number one: NOAA's website presents Mann et al's Hockey Stick as irrefutable "truth" in multiple places. Item number two: No one in their right mind would use Bristlecone Pines, known to be well adapted to wide swings in temperature, and growing in response to spring and summer moisture, as a proxy for temperature. Item number one: NOAA’s website presents Mann et al’s Hockey Stick as irrefutable “truth” in multiple places.

Item number two: No one in their right mind would use Bristlecone Pines, known to be well adapted to wide swings in temperature, and growing in response to spring and summer moisture, as a proxy for temperature.

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By: Roger Pielke Jr. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3730&cpage=1#comment-3035 Roger Pielke Jr. Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:19:22 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3730#comment-3035 Steve- The official NOAA media policy can be seen here: http://www.corporateservices.noaa.gov/~ames/NAOs/Chap_219/naos_219_6.html Several interesting sections: ---------------------- SECTION 3. MEDIA AND PUBLIC INTERACTIONS REQUIRING PRIOR NOTIFICATION. .01 The following shall be referred to the servicing PAO: a. proposed news conferences, whether for the specialized press or for the general press, radio, or television; b. proposed contacts with major news media and radio and television stations or networks for coverage of news features involving NOAA programs or activities; and c. official and non-official scientific and technical papers authored or co-authored by NOAA employees that may result in media interest. .02 NOAA employees must notify the servicing PAO or OPCIA before responding to news media inquiries whenever the inquiries: a. are of national news interest; b. concern regulatory actions or issues; c. concern controversial issues; d. pertain to science or research having known or potential policy implications; e. involve the release of scientific or technical papers that may have policy implications or are controversial; or f. involve a crisis or a potential crisis situation. ----------------------------- And also: ----------------------------- The following is intended to serve as general guidance for individuals who will be in contact with members of the media as a result of their work with NOAA. a. Discussions should focus on science and fact, not speculation. b. Limit discussions to matters for which you are responsible and of which you have direct knowledge. c. Whether in person, on camera, or over the phone, when speaking to a reporter you represent and speak for the entire agency. ------------------------- According to this news story starting last September this policy was enforced with renewed vigor and perhaps even modified to require approval further up the agency hierarchy : http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Commerce_Department_tells_Nationa_1004.html Steve-

The official NOAA media policy can be seen here:

http://www.corporateservices.noaa.gov/~ames/NAOs/Chap_219/naos_219_6.html

Several interesting sections:

———————-
SECTION 3. MEDIA AND PUBLIC INTERACTIONS REQUIRING PRIOR NOTIFICATION.

.01 The following shall be referred to the servicing PAO:

a. proposed news conferences, whether for the specialized press or for the general press, radio, or television;

b. proposed contacts with major news media and radio and television stations or networks for coverage of news features involving NOAA programs or activities; and

c. official and non-official scientific and technical papers authored or co-authored by NOAA employees that may result in media interest.

.02 NOAA employees must notify the servicing PAO or OPCIA before responding to news media inquiries whenever the inquiries:

a. are of national news interest;

b. concern regulatory actions or issues;

c. concern controversial issues;

d. pertain to science or research having known or potential policy implications;

e. involve the release of scientific or technical papers that may have policy implications or are controversial; or

f. involve a crisis or a potential crisis situation.
—————————–

And also:

—————————–
The following is intended to serve as general guidance for individuals who will be in contact with members of the media as a result of their work with NOAA.

a. Discussions should focus on science and fact, not speculation.

b. Limit discussions to matters for which you are responsible and of which you have direct knowledge.

c. Whether in person, on camera, or over the phone, when speaking to a reporter you represent and speak for the entire agency.
————————-

According to this news story starting last September this policy was enforced with renewed vigor and perhaps even modified to require approval further up the agency hierarchy :

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Commerce_Department_tells_Nationa_1004.html

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By: OnTheInside http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3730&cpage=1#comment-3034 OnTheInside Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:44:00 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3730#comment-3034 Roger. Your response seems reasonable. There was no alteration of Knutson's research as far as I know, but just a choice not to promote/mention it in certain circumstances. You're correct, this is an example of cherry-picking and playing politics. Understood on your definition of honest broker. I was extending the term (perhaps inappropriately) to within the context of science to mean communicating a full range of (published, legitimate) perspectives (which, ideally, would help foster expanded policy options). Roger. Your response seems reasonable. There was no alteration of Knutson’s research as far as I know, but just a choice not to promote/mention it in certain circumstances. You’re correct, this is an example of cherry-picking and playing politics.

Understood on your definition of honest broker. I was extending the term (perhaps inappropriately) to within the context of science to mean communicating a full range of (published, legitimate) perspectives (which, ideally, would help foster expanded policy options).

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By: Steve Bloom http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3730&cpage=1#comment-3033 Steve Bloom Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:32:03 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3730#comment-3033 A quick googling: Mayfield in the press on 2/10/06: http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2006/02/10/65247.htm Ed O'Lenic (from NOAA CPC) in the press 2/3/06: http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/nation/13780292.htm Landsea in the press 2/1/06: http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=18444 And finally, Landsea in the press on 2/2/06 (reprint from WSJ, so date of original article may be different): http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06033/648772.stm A quick googling:

Mayfield in the press on 2/10/06: http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2006/02/10/65247.htm

Ed O’Lenic (from NOAA CPC) in the press 2/3/06: http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/nation/13780292.htm

Landsea in the press 2/1/06: http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=18444

And finally, Landsea in the press on 2/2/06 (reprint from WSJ, so date of original article may be different): http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06033/648772.stm

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