Comments on: Climate Science and National Interests http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4478 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: gamoonbat http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4478&cpage=1#comment-10491 gamoonbat Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:34:37 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/climate-science-and-national-interests-4478#comment-10491 I imagine that there has actually been quite a strong reaction to the government plan there in India. India has a very strong environmental movement which is at least as outspoken and politically active as ours in the United States. Regardless of how the rest of the world behaves or legislates, however, the United States should be taking the lead. We have been in the lead on the polluting side for a long time. I imagine that there has actually been quite a strong reaction to the government plan there in India. India has a very strong environmental movement which is at least as outspoken and politically active as ours in the United States.

Regardless of how the rest of the world behaves or legislates, however, the United States should be taking the lead. We have been in the lead on the polluting side for a long time.

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By: Jonathan Gilligan http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4478&cpage=1#comment-10490 Jonathan Gilligan Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:07:25 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/climate-science-and-national-interests-4478#comment-10490 Procrustean efforts to reduce policy decisions to simple rules (economic growth should always trump mitigation or vice-versa) are not much use. India and the fully industrialized world are at different places on the Kuznets curve, so it's completely reasonable for poor nations to put more emphasis on short-term economic growth and rich nations to put more emphasis on the long-term sustainability of their comfortable quality of life by mitigating environmental change their citizens find undesirable. Basic economics tells us that adding $1000 per year to the average Indian's income will produce a much greater increase in quality of life than adding $1000 per year to the average U.S. citizen's (diminishing marginal utility of money). Citizens of the U.S. can (and do) afford to sacrifice tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars per family to provide higher education for their children, whereas Indian and Chinese families cannot and do not make comparable sacrifices of present wealth to benefit future generations. [Credit where it's due: I've stolen this point from Mike Maniates] Citizens of the U.S. and other wealthy nations sacrifice enormous amounts of economic growth by purchasing luxury consumer goods (cell phones, televisions, etc.) instead of investing that money in shares (which would promote economic growth). The U.S. and similarly wealthy nations can also afford sacrifices of current wealth for the environmental benefit of future generations---sacrifices poor nations cannot afford any more than they can afford plasma televisions, iPhones, Escalades, or Ivy League tuition. The normative conclusion I draw here is that we should make decisions about the environment by looking at concrete trade-offs amongst opportunities and risks in specific times and places rather than trying to force all times and places into one decision based on abstract and absolute principles. This conclusion echoes in many ways Nordhaus & Schellenberger's argument in Breakthrough that global warming is indeed an impending catastrophe, but that we can't fight it effectively until the poor nations of the world have acquired sufficient wealth and income to afford concern about future environmental hazards. Procrustean efforts to reduce policy decisions to simple rules (economic growth should always trump mitigation or vice-versa) are not much use.

India and the fully industrialized world are at different places on the Kuznets curve, so it’s completely reasonable for poor nations to put more emphasis on short-term economic growth and rich nations to put more emphasis on the long-term sustainability of their comfortable quality of life by mitigating environmental change their citizens find undesirable.

Basic economics tells us that adding $1000 per year to the average Indian’s income will produce a much greater increase in quality of life than adding $1000 per year to the average U.S. citizen’s (diminishing marginal utility of money).

Citizens of the U.S. can (and do) afford to sacrifice tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars per family to provide higher education for their children, whereas Indian and Chinese families cannot and do not make comparable sacrifices of present wealth to benefit future generations. [Credit where it's due: I've stolen this point from Mike Maniates] Citizens of the U.S. and other wealthy nations sacrifice enormous amounts of economic growth by purchasing luxury consumer goods (cell phones, televisions, etc.) instead of investing that money in shares (which would promote economic growth).

The U.S. and similarly wealthy nations can also afford sacrifices of current wealth for the environmental benefit of future generations—sacrifices poor nations cannot afford any more than they can afford plasma televisions, iPhones, Escalades, or Ivy League tuition.

The normative conclusion I draw here is that we should make decisions about the environment by looking at concrete trade-offs amongst opportunities and risks in specific times and places rather than trying to force all times and places into one decision based on abstract and absolute principles.

This conclusion echoes in many ways Nordhaus & Schellenberger’s argument in Breakthrough that global warming is indeed an impending catastrophe, but that we can’t fight it effectively until the poor nations of the world have acquired sufficient wealth and income to afford concern about future environmental hazards.

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By: Paul Biggs http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4478&cpage=1#comment-10489 Paul Biggs Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:15:34 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/climate-science-and-national-interests-4478#comment-10489 Pachauri's remarks are more evidence that the UN IPCC agenda is one of wealth redistribution, not climate. Pachauri is advocating huge increases in CO2 emissions from the likes of China and India that will ensure that atmospheric CO2 levels continue to rise, regardless of any emission reductions by developed countries - An odd position if he truly believes in a CO2 driven climate catastrophe and a high sensitivity of climate to CO2. That said, the document outlines a good policy for India along with an observational climate assessment that should embarrass the biased UN IPCC. Pachauri’s remarks are more evidence that the UN IPCC agenda is one of wealth redistribution, not climate.

Pachauri is advocating huge increases in CO2 emissions from the likes of China and India that will ensure that atmospheric CO2 levels continue to rise, regardless of any emission reductions by developed countries – An odd position if he truly believes in a CO2 driven climate catastrophe and a high sensitivity of climate to CO2.

That said, the document outlines a good policy for India along with an observational climate assessment that should embarrass the biased UN IPCC.

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