Comments on: New IST Science Policy Blogs http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3741 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: David Bruggeman http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3741&cpage=1#comment-3232 David Bruggeman Sun, 26 Feb 2006 05:36:05 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3741#comment-3232 Andrew Dessler wrote: "I would just like to say that the implication of Sarewitz and Jasanoff is that no effort should be made to educate policymakers on the processes that science uses. Science is simply too hard for them to understand." Actually, the implication of Sarewitz and Jasanoff is that scientists who try and educate the public (be they policymakers or not) assume that science is too hard for them to understand. Which is insulting. They also imply that such an education process is: 1) insufficient to influence policy This kind of public education only tells people what science does. Why scientists do what they do, or why science (and how it is conducted) matters to (insert person and occupation here) is rarely dealt with as much detail or consideration. I think this lack of complete education has something to do with an interest in researcher autonomy - but that could be another post. 2) too simplistic to accurately reflect the complicated nature of scientific research. Sarewitz covers this pretty well in his blog, and we've dealt with it a fair amount here at Prometheus. Science is more than just the scientific method. And I would suggest that the issues of great concern to policymakers these days rely on science that has difficulty in following the traditional scientific models, due to difficulties in replication, ethical/technical/resource limitations, or other reasons. and 3) scientists are presumed to know the policy process (and its associated politics). Perhaps this is a result of the traditional disdain of the social sciences and humanitites by the natural sciences, or a naivete about the universality of any Ph.Ds knowledge base. In any case, there is a serious disconnect between how policymakers solve problems and how scientists solve problems. When one tries to use the methods they learned in the other area, cognitive dissonance is a likely outcome. Andrew Dessler wrote:

“I would just like to say that the implication of Sarewitz and Jasanoff is that no effort should be made to educate policymakers on the processes that science uses. Science is simply too hard for them to understand.”

Actually, the implication of Sarewitz and Jasanoff is that scientists who try and educate the public (be they policymakers or not) assume that science is too hard for them to understand. Which is insulting.

They also imply that such an education process is:

1) insufficient to influence policy

This kind of public education only tells people what science does. Why scientists do what they do, or why science (and how it is conducted) matters to (insert person and occupation here) is rarely dealt with as much detail or consideration. I think this lack of complete education has something to do with an interest in researcher autonomy – but that could be another post.

2) too simplistic to accurately reflect the complicated nature of scientific research.

Sarewitz covers this pretty well in his blog, and we’ve dealt with it a fair amount here at Prometheus. Science is more than just the scientific method. And I would suggest that the issues of great concern to policymakers these days rely on science that has difficulty in following the traditional scientific models, due to difficulties in replication, ethical/technical/resource limitations, or other reasons.

and 3) scientists are presumed to know the policy process (and its associated politics).

Perhaps this is a result of the traditional disdain of the social sciences and humanitites by the natural sciences, or a naivete about the universality of any Ph.Ds knowledge base. In any case, there is a serious disconnect between how policymakers solve problems and how scientists solve problems. When one tries to use the methods they learned in the other area, cognitive dissonance is a likely outcome.

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By: Eli Rabett http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3741&cpage=1#comment-3231 Eli Rabett Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:33:56 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3741#comment-3231 Rocks for brains. (Don;t feed me straight lines and I won;t sin) Rocks for brains.

(Don;t feed me straight lines and I won;t sin)

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By: Roger Pielke Jr. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3741&cpage=1#comment-3230 Roger Pielke Jr. Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:33:17 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3741#comment-3230 All- I'd encourage you to make comments on Sarewitz's blog, I'm sure he'd welcome them. Just FYI, he has a PhD in Geology from Cornell, so he probably know something about science ;-) All- I’d encourage you to make comments on Sarewitz’s blog, I’m sure he’d welcome them. Just FYI, he has a PhD in Geology from Cornell, so he probably know something about science ;-)

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By: Hinheckle Jones http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3741&cpage=1#comment-3229 Hinheckle Jones Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:50:42 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3741#comment-3229 I suspect that Hank's daughter, farmers, and dog breeders are all practicing intelligent design. On the other hand, Sarewitz may not know much about science. I suspect that Hank’s daughter, farmers, and dog breeders are all practicing intelligent design.

On the other hand, Sarewitz may not know much about science.

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By: hank http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3741&cpage=1#comment-3228 hank Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:26:24 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3741#comment-3228 You ... no, I fear you really aren't kidding, are you? Sarewitz: "Kennedy told the Congressional audience that “the ultimate test of truth in science” is the replication of results: Hmmmm. Well, there’s certainly no way to replicate a billion or so years of Darwinian natural selection, so I guess the theory of evolution must not be science. And obviously you can’t replicate a general circulation model’s prediction..." There you have it. My thirteen year old niece's Advanced Placement Biology high school class is doing gene splicing and selection on bacteria. Do you suppose it only works because their teacher is secretly praying that it does? Or could there be something to natural selection since artificial selection replicates it so reliably? Ask any farmer or dog breeder. Just how dumb does he think our Congresspeople .... Oh. Okay, you're right. He's appropriate in context. Send a fundamentalist to catch a fundamentalist, eh? You … no, I fear you really aren’t kidding, are you?

Sarewitz: “Kennedy told the Congressional audience that “the ultimate test of truth in science” is the replication of results: Hmmmm. Well, there’s certainly no way to replicate a billion or so years of Darwinian natural selection, so I guess the theory of evolution must not be science. And obviously you can’t replicate a general circulation model’s prediction…”

There you have it. My thirteen year old niece’s Advanced Placement Biology high school class is doing gene splicing and selection on bacteria. Do you suppose it only works because their teacher is secretly praying that it does? Or could there be something to natural selection since artificial selection replicates it so reliably?

Ask any farmer or dog breeder.

Just how dumb does he think our Congresspeople ….

Oh.

Okay, you’re right. He’s appropriate in context. Send a fundamentalist to catch a fundamentalist, eh?

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By: Andrew Dessler http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3741&cpage=1#comment-3227 Andrew Dessler Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:26:06 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3741#comment-3227 This irritates me just like the Jasanoff comment. While I have no particular interest in rehashing that entire thread, I would just like to say that the implication of Sarewitz and Jasanoff is that no effort should be made to educate policymakers on the processes that science uses. Science is simply too hard for them to understand. I think that's crazy. And it's going to lead to bad policy. Regards. This irritates me just like the Jasanoff comment. While I have no particular interest in rehashing that entire thread, I would just like to say that the implication of Sarewitz and Jasanoff is that no effort should be made to educate policymakers on the processes that science uses. Science is simply too hard for them to understand.

I think that’s crazy. And it’s going to lead to bad policy.

Regards.

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By: David Roberts http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3741&cpage=1#comment-3226 David Roberts Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:19:29 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3741#comment-3226 Someone should tell those dudes to advertise their RSS feeds a little more prominently. If anyone's interested, the URLs are: http://issues-org-danielsarewitz.blogspot.com/atom.xml http://issues-org-jerrysheehan.blogspot.com/atom.xml Someone should tell those dudes to advertise their RSS feeds a little more prominently. If anyone’s interested, the URLs are:

http://issues-org-danielsarewitz.blogspot.com/atom.xml
http://issues-org-jerrysheehan.blogspot.com/atom.xml

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