Comments on: A Few Reactions to the Bonn Dialogue on the FCCC http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3826 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Dano http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3826&cpage=1#comment-4652 Dano Fri, 19 May 2006 23:55:48 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3826#comment-4652 Sorry Hans, my terminology was too wonky. Selected areas will be preferentially assisted to mitigate for climate change. Capital will be distributed according to the age-old ways we do things, which means that not all will get. Best, D Sorry Hans, my terminology was too wonky.

Selected areas will be preferentially assisted to mitigate for climate change. Capital will be distributed according to the age-old ways we do things, which means that not all will get.

Best,

D

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By: Hans Erren http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3826&cpage=1#comment-4651 Hans Erren Fri, 19 May 2006 22:09:13 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3826#comment-4651 ? I don't get your asymmetric distribution point Dano. Dar es Salaam is a fast growing town with growing water problems, you don't want to spent FCCC money on this? Please explain. ? I don’t get your asymmetric distribution point Dano.

Dar es Salaam is a fast growing town with growing water problems, you don’t want to spent FCCC money on this?

Please explain.

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By: Dano http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3826&cpage=1#comment-4650 Dano Fri, 19 May 2006 20:15:28 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3826#comment-4650 My point is about asymmetric distribution, and thank you for helping me make my point Hans. Best, D My point is about asymmetric distribution, and thank you for helping me make my point Hans.

Best,

D

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By: Hans Erren http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3826&cpage=1#comment-4649 Hans Erren Thu, 18 May 2006 22:01:17 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3826#comment-4649 like...er...here Dano? http://www.waternetonline.ihe.nl/docs/Papers2003/Warfsa-WaterNet%20Theme%203/Improvement%20of%20Water%20Management%20in%20Flood%20Prone%20Areas.pdf Problems Encountered in Dar es Salaam Dar es Salaam the former capital city of Tanzania is situated near coast of Indian Ocean with a total population of 2497940 (Source: http://www.tanzania.go.tz/2002cencus.html). There are rivers like Kibangu, Ubungo, Sinza, Msimbazi, and Mtoni within the city. Dar es Salaam city is facing a problem of floods and shortage of water and also pollution due to urbanization influx, increasing squatter settlements and lack of resources to facilitate proper functioning. Due to poor budget allocation disposal of solid wastes, storm water drainages and discharge of wastewater are poorly managed. This has resulted into over flooding of the roads in the city causing problems for the traffic. The urban rivers, which are a source of drinking water, are also used for sewage and industrial waste disposal and rubbish dump. Catchment area of the Ruvu river, the main source of Dar es Salaam water supply is not well managed. Lands that should have been left unused, because they are wetlands contributing flow into the river or are forest reserves or have other ecological or hydrological significances have been invaded by dwellers and are being cultivated. So the Ruvu River has taken a different course, which seems to cause environmental problems. Due to poor planning of housing development and bureaucracy by the Ministry of Lands and Human Settlements, the people settle in valleys, waste lands and swamps in Dar es Salaam city. Also due to inadequate drainage, these areas are flooded every now and then causing hazards to people and houses during rainy seasons, which is made worse by poor sitting of dwelling houses i.e. in flood plains. see also: http://www.ippmedia.com/ipp/guardian/2006/05/11/66165.html like…er…here Dano?
http://www.waternetonline.ihe.nl/docs/Papers2003/Warfsa-WaterNet%20Theme%203/Improvement%20of%20Water%20Management%20in%20Flood%20Prone%20Areas.pdf

Problems Encountered in Dar es Salaam

Dar es Salaam the former capital city of Tanzania is situated near coast of Indian Ocean with a total population of 2497940 (Source: http://www.tanzania.go.tz/2002cencus.html). There are rivers like Kibangu, Ubungo, Sinza, Msimbazi, and Mtoni within the city. Dar es Salaam city is facing a problem of floods and shortage of water and also pollution due to urbanization influx, increasing squatter settlements and lack of resources to facilitate proper functioning. Due to poor budget allocation disposal of solid wastes, storm water drainages and discharge of wastewater are poorly managed. This has resulted into over flooding of the roads in the city causing problems for the traffic. The urban rivers, which are a source of drinking water, are also used for sewage and industrial waste disposal and rubbish dump. Catchment area of the Ruvu river, the main source of Dar es Salaam water supply is not well managed. Lands that should have been left unused, because they are wetlands contributing flow into the river or are forest reserves or have other ecological or hydrological significances have been invaded by dwellers and are being cultivated. So the Ruvu River has taken a different course, which seems to cause environmental problems.
Due to poor planning of housing development and bureaucracy by the Ministry of Lands and Human Settlements, the people settle in valleys, waste lands and swamps in Dar es Salaam city. Also due to inadequate drainage, these areas are flooded every now and then causing hazards to people and houses during rainy seasons, which is made worse by poor sitting of dwelling houses i.e. in flood plains.

see also:
http://www.ippmedia.com/ipp/guardian/2006/05/11/66165.html

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By: Dano http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3826&cpage=1#comment-4648 Dano Thu, 18 May 2006 16:41:09 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3826#comment-4648 Eli, Adaptation is just fine if you can afford to pay for the changes. One might even find...er...opportunities for business ideas in the change if you have capital to invest and a business acumen. Lots of money will be...er...floating around out there waiting to be made. Best, D Eli,

Adaptation is just fine if you can afford to pay for the changes. One might even find…er…opportunities for business ideas in the change if you have capital to invest and a business acumen. Lots of money will be…er…floating around out there waiting to be made.

Best,

D

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By: Hans Erren http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3826&cpage=1#comment-4647 Hans Erren Thu, 18 May 2006 14:07:50 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3826#comment-4647 Tuvalu, Tanzania and the Philippines do not have the possibility to mitigate. Adaptation improves infrastucture and has direct economic benefits. I lived in Tanzania. Simply improving drainage during the rainy season in Dar es Salaam gives less flooding, less malaria, less damage. http://home.casema.nl/errenwijlens/family/regentijd1.jpg Tuvalu, Tanzania and the Philippines do not have the possibility to mitigate. Adaptation improves infrastucture and has direct economic benefits.

I lived in Tanzania. Simply improving drainage during the rainy season in Dar es Salaam gives less flooding, less malaria, less damage.

http://home.casema.nl/errenwijlens/family/regentijd1.jpg

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By: Eli Rabett http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3826&cpage=1#comment-4646 Eli Rabett Thu, 18 May 2006 01:20:16 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3826#comment-4646 Adaptation is not the only choice. You can die. Your family can die. Your situation can deteriorate to the point it is not worth living (see Somalia, Iraq, dystopia, etc.). Happens frequently to individuals during major changes. Adaptation is not a magic wand that makes everything good again, and sometimes it is not possible, certainly not for individuals, and often enough not possible for populations. Advocates of adaptation frequently think that it is a strategy for others and they will not have to take part. Simply to say adapt and go not further is a response of the ethically challenged. Adapt how, at what cost, in money and lives and quality of life. Avoiding situations where dire choices have to be made is advisable, but evidently not to those who would rather not confront necessary changes to their own behavior. Adaptation is not the only choice. You can die. Your family can die. Your situation can deteriorate to the point it is not worth living (see Somalia, Iraq, dystopia, etc.). Happens frequently to individuals during major changes.

Adaptation is not a magic wand that makes everything good again, and sometimes it is not possible, certainly not for individuals, and often enough not possible for populations. Advocates of adaptation frequently think that it is a strategy for others and they will not have to take part. Simply to say adapt and go not further is a response of the ethically challenged. Adapt how, at what cost, in money and lives and quality of life.

Avoiding situations where dire choices have to be made is advisable, but evidently not to those who would rather not confront necessary changes to their own behavior.

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By: James Annan http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3826&cpage=1#comment-4645 James Annan Wed, 17 May 2006 22:05:50 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3826#comment-4645 Daniel, Within our lifetimes, it is more a question of mitigation being untenable (the changes are going to happen, whatever realistic attempts we try to make) and the only option (if there is one at all) is to adapt! That depends a bit on "lifetime" of course, and the mitigation still might have significant benefits for future generations - I'm not really arguing that mitigation is a complete waste of time. Maybe some would argue that the current/committed changes are not significant enough to actually require any adaptation - after all, we are still some way short of the "dangerous" threshold. This seems like a possible mindset given the attitude that +2C is "dangerous" and avoiding this is the main (only) priority. But I don't know, I'm just guessing here. Daniel,

Within our lifetimes, it is more a question of mitigation being untenable (the changes are going to happen, whatever realistic attempts we try to make) and the only option (if there is one at all) is to adapt!

That depends a bit on “lifetime” of course, and the mitigation still might have significant benefits for future generations – I’m not really arguing that mitigation is a complete waste of time.

Maybe some would argue that the current/committed changes are not significant enough to actually require any adaptation – after all, we are still some way short of the “dangerous” threshold. This seems like a possible mindset given the attitude that +2C is “dangerous” and avoiding this is the main (only) priority. But I don’t know, I’m just guessing here.

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By: Daniel Collins http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3826&cpage=1#comment-4644 Daniel Collins Wed, 17 May 2006 17:19:31 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3826#comment-4644 By "untenable" I meant that some things you just can't adapt to (too great an environmental stress), and so the only option (if there is one at all) is to mitigate. I agree that some amount of adaptation is necessary, in part because some amount of climate change (from GHG and land use change) cannot now be prevented. Removing either response from the portfolio is naive. Cheers. By “untenable” I meant that some things you just can’t adapt to (too great an environmental stress), and so the only option (if there is one at all) is to mitigate. I agree that some amount of adaptation is necessary, in part because some amount of climate change (from GHG and land use change) cannot now be prevented. Removing either response from the portfolio is naive. Cheers.

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By: Roger Pielke, Jr. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3826&cpage=1#comment-4643 Roger Pielke, Jr. Wed, 17 May 2006 17:04:16 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3826#comment-4643 Daniel- Thanks for your comments. Though I am unclear anout what it means to say that "adaptation is untenable". In a situation where preventing any change is impossible, adaptation is by definition the only option and it will occur in some form or another. Sea level rise is a good example of this. It is typically discussed in terms of how much the sea level will change, but almost never (except amoung a few specialists) in terms of how much of this change is avoidable via mitigation, on what time scales, and with what certainty. According to the current consensus, there is already a significant commitment to climate change in the works regardless of future mitigation. This doesn;t mean we forget about mitigation, but it does mean that we must focus on adaptation. We might mitigate, but we will adapt. That is certain, 100%. Given this reality, it is amazing the the FCCC is structurally biased against adaptation. Thanks! Daniel- Thanks for your comments. Though I am unclear anout what it means to say that “adaptation is untenable”. In a situation where preventing any change is impossible, adaptation is by definition the only option and it will occur in some form or another.

Sea level rise is a good example of this. It is typically discussed in terms of how much the sea level will change, but almost never (except amoung a few specialists) in terms of how much of this change is avoidable via mitigation, on what time scales, and with what certainty. According to the current consensus, there is already a significant commitment to climate change in the works regardless of future mitigation.

This doesn;t mean we forget about mitigation, but it does mean that we must focus on adaptation. We might mitigate, but we will adapt. That is certain, 100%. Given this reality, it is amazing the the FCCC is structurally biased against adaptation.

Thanks!

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