Comments on: Cutler and Glaeser on Why do Europeans Smoke More Than Americans? Part I http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3807 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Roger Pielke Jr. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3807&cpage=1#comment-4262 Roger Pielke Jr. Wed, 03 May 2006 12:47:14 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3807#comment-4262 Thanks Patrick G. for this input! Thanks Patrick G. for this input!

]]> By: Patrick G. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3807&cpage=1#comment-4261 Patrick G. Wed, 03 May 2006 08:32:27 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3807#comment-4261 I am from Germany and from my personal impressions with smoking and smokers in Germany I can't say I know anyone who doesn't know or believe smoking is harmful. It seems to me to be much more a subject for social studies, since acceptance of smokers / smoking is pretty widespread in my country, even if they are in a public space or in a minority. If you meet in a cafe or restaurant, the only smoker in a group of many will surely light up one without even asking or caring about what other people a the table may think of it. Non-Smokers are much more defensive since even asking a smoker to step outside or wait till the food is had is considered rude or at least unfriendly. And legislation isn't that strict at least in Germany, Non-Smoking-Zones in restaurants are voluntary and even at the workspaces there are only lax regulations that most people don't bother to apply. I think the USA is just ahead of Europe there, maybe because the US tabac lobby had their spine ripped out some time ago, sth. I still wait for in Europe. I am from Germany and from my personal impressions with smoking and smokers in Germany I can’t say I know anyone who doesn’t know or believe smoking is harmful.

It seems to me to be much more a subject for social studies, since acceptance of smokers / smoking is pretty widespread in my country, even if they are in a public space or in a minority.

If you meet in a cafe or restaurant, the only smoker in a group of many will surely light up one without even asking or caring about what other people a the table may think of it.

Non-Smokers are much more defensive since even asking a smoker to step outside or wait till the food is had is considered rude or at least unfriendly.

And legislation isn’t that strict at least in Germany, Non-Smoking-Zones in restaurants are voluntary and even at the workspaces there are only lax regulations that most people don’t bother to apply.

I think the USA is just ahead of Europe there, maybe because the US tabac lobby had their spine ripped out some time ago, sth. I still wait for in Europe.

]]> By: Dano http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3807&cpage=1#comment-4260 Dano Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:48:09 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3807#comment-4260 "Frankly, as a non-smoker, few things make me WANT to smoke more than some of the most offensive nanny-state propoganda I see sometimes. " Suuuuuuuure, Chad. Righty-o. Best, D “Frankly, as a non-smoker, few things make me WANT to smoke more than some of the most offensive nanny-state propoganda I see sometimes. ”

Suuuuuuuure, Chad. Righty-o.

Best,

D

]]> By: Eli Rabett http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3807&cpage=1#comment-4259 Eli Rabett Thu, 27 Apr 2006 03:00:42 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3807#comment-4259 Sorry, I left the link off http://apps.popchart.com/nci/smokersrisk/index.jsp Sorry, I left the link off http://apps.popchart.com/nci/smokersrisk/index.jsp

]]> By: Eli Rabett http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3807&cpage=1#comment-4258 Eli Rabett Thu, 27 Apr 2006 03:00:00 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3807#comment-4258 As in everything else you have to deaggregate data when there are complex interactions. This link shows a fair amount of data in a flash format. The problem with Chad Brick's numbers is that they are (probably) for all smokers who smoked lightly and heavily, started at all ages, and many of whom quit. As in everything else you have to deaggregate data when there are complex interactions. This link shows a fair amount of data in a flash format. The problem with Chad Brick’s numbers is that they are (probably) for all smokers who smoked lightly and heavily, started at all ages, and many of whom quit.

]]> By: Chad Brick http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3807&cpage=1#comment-4257 Chad Brick Thu, 27 Apr 2006 02:30:31 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3807#comment-4257 Could this phenomenon have anything to do with the observation that Americans (especially young Americans) dramatically overestimate the negative health effects of smoking? http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/viscusi/pubs/214_2000_JBDM-13-2.pdf For example, 16-21 year olds believe that a smoker faces a 49% lifetime chance at suffering from lung cancer, while the actual number is between 6 and 13%. Likewise, smokers believe they will lose 9-10 years of life by being smokers, when the actual value is estimated at 3.6-7.2 years. There are definitely times when I feel that the anti-smoking crusade (often government-sponsored) crosses the line from providing information into an area of deceptive spin that differs little from the worst of politics. Perhaps this data is a manifestation of these messages. Frankly, as a non-smoker, few things make me WANT to smoke more than some of the most offensive nanny-state propoganda I see sometimes. Could this phenomenon have anything to do with the observation that Americans (especially young Americans) dramatically overestimate the negative health effects of smoking?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/viscusi/pubs/214_2000_JBDM-13-2.pdf

For example, 16-21 year olds believe that a smoker faces a 49% lifetime chance at suffering from lung cancer, while the actual number is between 6 and 13%. Likewise, smokers believe they will lose 9-10 years of life by being smokers, when the actual value is estimated at 3.6-7.2 years.

There are definitely times when I feel that the anti-smoking crusade (often government-sponsored) crosses the line from providing information into an area of deceptive spin that differs little from the worst of politics. Perhaps this data is a manifestation of these messages. Frankly, as a non-smoker, few things make me WANT to smoke more than some of the most offensive nanny-state propoganda I see sometimes.

]]> By: Eli Rabett http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3807&cpage=1#comment-4256 Eli Rabett Thu, 27 Apr 2006 00:28:01 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3807#comment-4256 To discuss this sensibly, we need data. Here is the data from the US http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_data/adults_prev/prevali.htm which shows that smoking has decreased from ~42% to 21% in the US since 1965. Here is country by country data from Europe http://www.heartstats.org/datapage.asp?id=4669 (the numbers for Germany look high to me, I found other sources where the prevalence for men was ~38%, and there is an East/West difference. The data, and especially the extreme differences between the sexes in many of the former Eastern Bloc countries such as the Russian Federation, Belarus, Armenia, etc. points to what may be an important part of the answer: that smoking is associated with hanging out in bars and coffee houses. The banishing of tobacco from these venues stands a good chance of making a huge difference. If I wanted to look for an answer, I would survey how many of the smokers smoked in such places. Going to the local cafe is a much more important part of social life in most of Europe than the US. To discuss this sensibly, we need data. Here is the data from the US http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_data/adults_prev/prevali.htm
which shows that smoking has decreased from ~42% to 21% in the US since 1965. Here is country by country data from Europe http://www.heartstats.org/datapage.asp?id=4669
(the numbers for Germany look high to me, I found other sources where the prevalence for men was ~38%, and there is an East/West difference.

The data, and especially the extreme differences between the sexes in many of the former Eastern Bloc countries such as the Russian Federation, Belarus, Armenia, etc. points to what may be an important part of the answer: that smoking is associated with hanging out in bars and coffee houses. The banishing of tobacco from these venues stands a good chance of making a huge difference.

If I wanted to look for an answer, I would survey how many of the smokers smoked in such places. Going to the local cafe is a much more important part of social life in most of Europe than the US.

]]> By: Jim http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3807&cpage=1#comment-4255 Jim Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:40:22 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3807#comment-4255 Most people in the US believe smoking causes cancer because they know smokers who have come down with cancer. I am not sure if this is the same in Europe, where smoking is a more recent phenomina. It may have less to do with government reports than personal experience. Most people in the US believe smoking causes cancer because they know smokers who have come down with cancer. I am not sure if this is the same in Europe, where smoking is a more recent phenomina. It may have less to do with government reports than personal experience.

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