Comments on: Now Revkin is a Denier http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Paul Biggs http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909&cpage=1#comment-11680 Paul Biggs Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:33:57 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909#comment-11680 Joe - Why spend even $1 on a non-problem? When did CO2, even when its atmospheric concentration was thousands of ppmv, cause a catastrophe or an 'irreversible catastrophe?' Joe – Why spend even $1 on a non-problem? When did CO2, even when its atmospheric concentration was thousands of ppmv, cause a catastrophe or an ‘irreversible catastrophe?’

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By: EDaniel http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909&cpage=1#comment-11673 EDaniel Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:06:51 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909#comment-11673 What bend and lucia said. That's exactly the way I read it. If "them" refers to only one of "he" and Roger Pielke Jr., then it should not have been "them". What bend and lucia said. That’s exactly the way I read it.

If “them” refers to only one of “he” and Roger Pielke Jr., then it should not have been “them”.

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By: lucia http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909&cpage=1#comment-11672 lucia Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:48:45 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909#comment-11672 Joe, <blockquote>Following that shockingly un-scientific statement, he includes the link to his 2007 piece, “A New Middle Stance Emerges in Debate over Climate,” that touts the views of Roger A. Pielke Jr., of all people! <i>The “middle stance”</i> is apparently just the old denier do-nothing stance with a smile, a token nod to science, and a $5 a ton CO2 tax <i>[which is why I call them denier-eq’s]</i> (see “Finally, Roger Pielke admits he supports policies that will take us to 5-7°C warming or more“). Now <i>if the top NYT reporter is pushing the mushy middle</i> — if he writes things like “Even with the increasing summer retreats of sea ice, which many polar scientists say probably are being driven in part by global warming caused by humans (see “Note to media: Enough with the multiple hedges on climate science!“), if his stories have online headlines like Arctic Ice Hints at Warming, Specialists Say — why on Earth would it be news that the public is itself stuck in the mushy middle?</blockquote> In the first paragraph, you appear to say those who support the middle stance are "denier-eq", you name two people. However, a reader <i>might</i> think your only calling Roger the denier-eq. In the second you say Andy Revkin is pushing he middle stance. As you just defined those pushing the middle as "denier-eq", many readers would believe you place Andy in that group. I noticed you posted 5 extremely long articles, and it's barely 2pm. You must type like the wind! Joe,

Following that shockingly un-scientific statement, he includes the link to his 2007 piece, “A New Middle Stance Emerges in Debate over Climate,” that touts the views of Roger A. Pielke Jr., of all people! The “middle stance” is apparently just the old denier do-nothing stance with a smile, a token nod to science, and a $5 a ton CO2 tax [which is why I call them denier-eq’s] (see “Finally, Roger Pielke admits he supports policies that will take us to 5-7°C warming or more“).

Now if the top NYT reporter is pushing the mushy middle — if he writes things like “Even with the increasing summer retreats of sea ice, which many polar scientists say probably are being driven in part by global warming caused by humans (see “Note to media: Enough with the multiple hedges on climate science!“), if his stories have online headlines like Arctic Ice Hints at Warming, Specialists Say — why on Earth would it be news that the public is itself stuck in the mushy middle?

In the first paragraph, you appear to say those who support the middle stance are “denier-eq”, you name two people. However, a reader might think your only calling Roger the denier-eq.

In the second you say Andy Revkin is pushing he middle stance. As you just defined those pushing the middle as “denier-eq”, many readers would believe you place Andy in that group.

I noticed you posted 5 extremely long articles, and it’s barely 2pm. You must type like the wind!

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By: bend http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909&cpage=1#comment-11671 bend Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:39:03 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909#comment-11671 It would seem that the pronoun "them" in the bracketed "which is why I call them denier-eq’s" would refer back to the antecedents "he" (Revkin) and Roger A. Pielke Jr. If you did not intend to call Pielke Jr. and Revkin denier equivalents (which is the same thing as calling them deniers-that's what equivalent means) then you might be a little more explicit as to whom you're referring when you say "them." I'm not saying that my grammar is flawless or that I never structure my sentences in a confusing manner, but I wouldn't fault anyone who read your post for believing that you did call Andy a denier. It would seem that the pronoun “them” in the bracketed “which is why I call them denier-eq’s” would refer back to the antecedents “he” (Revkin) and Roger A. Pielke Jr. If you did not intend to call Pielke Jr. and Revkin denier equivalents (which is the same thing as calling them deniers-that’s what equivalent means) then you might be a little more explicit as to whom you’re referring when you say “them.” I’m not saying that my grammar is flawless or that I never structure my sentences in a confusing manner, but I wouldn’t fault anyone who read your post for believing that you did call Andy a denier.

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By: Jromm ClimateProgress http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909&cpage=1#comment-11670 Jromm ClimateProgress Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:00:40 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909#comment-11670 Don't be silly, Roger. I don't call Andy a denier, as anybody who reads my post can tell. He is a serious journalist. Contrary to whatever point you were making, he is a science reporter, indeed he is the NYT's lead reporter on climate science. If he is going to do political analysis, he should do what the NYT and every other major media outlet does when a reporter writes analysis -- they say it is analysis. But that is really a side issue. Some day, perhaps, you will explain it whether you believe that on our current emissions path we are headed toward " irreversible catastrophe" as Obama put it today. And if so, doesn't that warrant more than $5 a ton of CO2. Some day. Don’t be silly, Roger.

I don’t call Andy a denier, as anybody who reads my post can tell. He is a serious journalist.

Contrary to whatever point you were making, he is a science reporter, indeed he is the NYT’s lead reporter on climate science. If he is going to do political analysis, he should do what the NYT and every other major media outlet does when a reporter writes analysis — they say it is analysis.

But that is really a side issue. Some day, perhaps, you will explain it whether you believe that on our current emissions path we are headed toward ” irreversible catastrophe” as Obama put it today. And if so, doesn’t that warrant more than $5 a ton of CO2.

Some day.

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By: Paul Biggs http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909&cpage=1#comment-11668 Paul Biggs Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:28:47 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=4909#comment-11668 The Holocaust actually happened - it wasn't an unverifiable computer modelled projection. If there are 'Nazis' in the climate debate, then they aren't to be found in the 'denier' camp. The Holocaust actually happened – it wasn’t an unverifiable computer modelled projection. If there are ‘Nazis’ in the climate debate, then they aren’t to be found in the ‘denier’ camp.

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