Comments on: Global Governance of Science http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Celebrity Paycut - Encouraging celebrities all over the world to save us from global warming by taking a paycut. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069&cpage=1#comment-13089 Celebrity Paycut - Encouraging celebrities all over the world to save us from global warming by taking a paycut. Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:11:32 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069#comment-13089 [...] This article explains and links to the report. It seems to me this is a grab too far, but it shows the grand intentions of this supra-national body to try to control our lives. [...] [...] This article explains and links to the report. It seems to me this is a grab too far, but it shows the grand intentions of this supra-national body to try to control our lives. [...]

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By: George Tobin http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069&cpage=1#comment-13041 George Tobin Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:37:09 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069#comment-13041 I meant # 8 I inadvertently wrote #6 I meant # 8 I inadvertently wrote #6

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By: George Tobin http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069&cpage=1#comment-13040 George Tobin Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:36:28 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069#comment-13040 MJ Re #6 - Thank you for the links. I particularly liked the project to study what is and what is not "research" for purposes of applying the rules. Of course, the question arises at the outset as to whether a project to define "research" is itself "research"... I think a preliminary study was required here to determine whether something which is itself "research" can serve as a defining referent for "research" itself, ontologically speaking. In practical terms, should the Ministry of Deciding Whether It Really Is Research decide in advance on each proposal or simply field inquires presented by the Ministry of Funding Acceptable Inquiries if and when a grey area arises. We should probably have a study.... MJ Re #6 – Thank you for the links. I particularly liked the project to study what is and what is not “research” for purposes of applying the rules.

Of course, the question arises at the outset as to whether a project to define “research” is itself “research”… I think a preliminary study was required here to determine whether something which is itself “research” can serve as a defining referent for “research” itself, ontologically speaking.

In practical terms, should the Ministry of Deciding Whether It Really Is Research decide in advance on each proposal or simply field inquires presented by the Ministry of Funding Acceptable Inquiries if and when a grey area arises. We should probably have a study….

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By: MJ http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069&cpage=1#comment-13039 MJ Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:58:47 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069#comment-13039 Re #6 - I hope everyone thinks that all research that should be done safely? Researchers in general work under guidelines developed by different governing agencies. Find it hard to imagine that EU will adopt a centralized governing plan on this topic. Re #5 – Is interesting that the entire author site was more on policy side of things, but I don’t think that is uncommon. Maybe Roger could comment on similar studies in the US that don’t involve the actual sciences. I guess it is feasible that the authors got inputs from actual scientist doing work, but in this case it was a policy document written by policy geared authors. Re #1 – People that get funded to write it, that is who. It is likely someone above them in the food chain wanted it. While I could not find the exact funding source it seems amongst these 3 on page 2: Directorate-General for Research, Directorate L – Science, Economy and Society, Unit L.3 – Governance and Ethics. But on Page 3 the closest direct link appears to be to DIRECTORATE-GENERAL FOR RESEARCH SCIENCE, ECONOMY AND SOCIETY. While I did not find the funding source on the EU site, it is likely to have come from this funding line http://cordis.europa.eu/fp7/home_en.html. What was interesting is they did a similar study in fp6 - http://tinyurl.com/pro-fp6 Re #6 – I hope everyone thinks that all research that should be done safely? Researchers in general work under guidelines developed by different governing agencies. Find it hard to imagine that EU will adopt a centralized governing plan on this topic.

Re #5 – Is interesting that the entire author site was more on policy side of things, but I don’t think that is uncommon.

Maybe Roger could comment on similar studies in the US that don’t involve the actual sciences. I guess it is feasible that the authors got inputs from actual scientist doing work, but in this case it was a policy document written by policy geared authors.

Re #1 – People that get funded to write it, that is who. It is likely someone above them in the food chain wanted it. While I could not find the exact funding source it seems amongst these 3 on page 2: Directorate-General for Research, Directorate L – Science, Economy and Society, Unit L.3 – Governance and Ethics. But on Page 3 the closest direct link appears to be to DIRECTORATE-GENERAL FOR RESEARCH SCIENCE, ECONOMY AND SOCIETY. While I did not find the funding source on the EU site, it is likely to have come from this funding line http://cordis.europa.eu/fp7/home_en.html. What was interesting is they did a similar study in fp6 – http://tinyurl.com/pro-fp6

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By: techgm http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069&cpage=1#comment-13038 techgm Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:49:31 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069#comment-13038 The announcement refers to, “European principles of good governance and fundamental rights.” Does this refers to the same European principles-in-action that gave us the Thirty Years War, The Terror (of the French Revolution), Napoleon, WWI, Fascistic Italy, Communistic Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, the Gulags, and the Holocaust? God save us from European principles of good governance and fundamental rights. Government governs best that governs least, especially regarding science. The announcement refers to, “European principles of good governance and fundamental rights.” Does this refers to the same European principles-in-action that gave us the Thirty Years War, The Terror (of the French Revolution), Napoleon, WWI, Fascistic Italy, Communistic Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, the Gulags, and the Holocaust?

God save us from European principles of good governance and fundamental rights.

Government governs best that governs least, especially regarding science.

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By: rxc http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069&cpage=1#comment-13037 rxc Thu, 19 Mar 2009 08:11:20 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069#comment-13037 When we are done implementing this plan, you will only do the research that we think is safe, under the precautionary principle, and you will only make the discoveries that we find to be socially acceptable. When we are done implementing this plan, you will only do the research that we think is safe, under the precautionary principle, and you will only make the discoveries that we find to be socially acceptable.

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By: Len Ornstein http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069&cpage=1#comment-13032 Len Ornstein Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:16:23 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069#comment-13032 It's sad! These Europeans don't appreciate that one of the biggest problems, even in Europe, is the low level of public understanding of what science is, and how although it tries to reduce uncertainty – it can never deliver absolute truth about the 'real' world. And that no other discipline can do better. So they give NO attention to promoting science education to improve global governance of science. The teaching of scepticism, moderated by empirical testing of models, as it might apply to the practice of global governance, in general, seems not to be appreciated. And although they emphasize the importance of involving ALL kinds of stake-holders in discussions of science policy, NOT ONE NATURAL SCIENTIST participated in preparing this document! It’s sad!

These Europeans don’t appreciate that one of the biggest problems, even in Europe, is the low level of public understanding of what science is, and how although it tries to reduce uncertainty – it can never deliver absolute truth about the ‘real’ world. And that no other discipline can do better.

So they give NO attention to promoting science education to improve global governance of science. The teaching of scepticism, moderated by empirical testing of models, as it might apply to the practice of global governance, in general, seems not to be appreciated. And although they emphasize the importance of involving ALL kinds of stake-holders in discussions of science policy, NOT ONE NATURAL SCIENTIST participated in preparing this document!

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By: Reid http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069&cpage=1#comment-13025 Reid Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:29:16 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069#comment-13025 This is what EU bureaucrats do all day. They develop grand plans that have no chance of succeeding in the real world. Does anyone remember the Lisbon Goals of 2000? By 2010 the EU would overtake the US as the most competitive economy in the world. The bureaucrats and experts developed a plan but the economy refused to cooperate. Not only has it not succeeded but they have fallen further behind in most metrics. If only the economy would have been smart enough to listen to the experts. This is what EU bureaucrats do all day. They develop grand plans that have no chance of succeeding in the real world.

Does anyone remember the Lisbon Goals of 2000? By 2010 the EU would overtake the US as the most competitive economy in the world. The bureaucrats and experts developed a plan but the economy refused to cooperate. Not only has it not succeeded but they have fallen further behind in most metrics. If only the economy would have been smart enough to listen to the experts.

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By: Maurice Garoutte http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069&cpage=1#comment-13019 Maurice Garoutte Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:31:41 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069#comment-13019 Jae, Two sentences ea? Well ok. The US control of science is working out really well to get global control of energy use. Let’s try it for everything. Jae, Two sentences ea? Well ok.

The US control of science is working out really well to get global control of energy use. Let’s try it for everything.

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By: jae http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069&cpage=1#comment-13017 jae Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:18:42 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=5069#comment-13017 LOL. That is, indeed, bureacracy-speak, if I ever heard it! Can someone please put it in English. It should not require more than two sentences. Gotta love it when the government speaks. LOL. That is, indeed, bureacracy-speak, if I ever heard it! Can someone please put it in English. It should not require more than two sentences. Gotta love it when the government speaks.

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