Comments on: Cherrypicking at the New York Times http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3848 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Roger Pielke, Jr. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3848&cpage=1#comment-4864 Roger Pielke, Jr. Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:17:15 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3848#comment-4864 Thanks Peter Webster for your comments. Apologies for the sign in problems, we are working to fix this. As far as cherrypicking, we are guilty as charged. All presentations of information are necessarily selective, thus here as well. As far as the specific issue of the NYT article, my thinking is that if the NYT features several scientific articles then they will get wide attention., perhaps even wider than if they were featured on Prometheus;-) By contrast the other articles have not received similar attention. On the Klotzbach paper, our decision to feature it seems appropriate as, to my knowledge, no media outlet (certainly not any major media outlet) covered it. Thanks again! Thanks Peter Webster for your comments. Apologies for the sign in problems, we are working to fix this.

As far as cherrypicking, we are guilty as charged. All presentations of information are necessarily selective, thus here as well.

As far as the specific issue of the NYT article, my thinking is that if the NYT features several scientific articles then they will get wide attention., perhaps even wider than if they were featured on Prometheus;-) By contrast the other articles have not received similar attention.

On the Klotzbach paper, our decision to feature it seems appropriate as, to my knowledge, no media outlet (certainly not any major media outlet) covered it.

Thanks again!

]]>
By: Benny Peiser http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3848&cpage=1#comment-4863 Benny Peiser Sun, 04 Jun 2006 09:58:03 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3848#comment-4863 Fair enough, John. But don’t you sometimes wonder whether making the promoter of a controversial hypothesis the arbiter of his own research and that of his opponents might look as incongruous as if the IPCC had chosen the hockey-stick team to, well, reassess their own hockey-stick? :-) Fair enough, John. But don’t you sometimes wonder whether making the promoter of a controversial hypothesis the arbiter of his own research and that of his opponents might look as incongruous as if the IPCC had chosen the hockey-stick team to, well, reassess their own hockey-stick? :-)

]]>
By: jfleck http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3848&cpage=1#comment-4862 jfleck Sat, 03 Jun 2006 22:45:14 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3848#comment-4862 I'm not sure my "faith" in the IPCC process is "blind," but I'm comfortable waiting until the report comes out to see how it handles this issue. I’m not sure my “faith” in the IPCC process is “blind,” but I’m comfortable waiting until the report comes out to see how it handles this issue.

]]>
By: peter webster http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3848&cpage=1#comment-4861 peter webster Sat, 03 Jun 2006 19:05:20 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3848#comment-4861 Cherrypicking at Prometheus? Your article, and the subsequent comments on the NYT only referring to two articles and ignoring others (one of which you are a coauthor), was interesting but disappointing. I will not comment on the NYT’s choice or neglect of papers but I will question a similar “cherrypicking” on your blog. On May 1 you commented extensively on the Klotzbach paper, not then published by the way, noting that it questioned results from “high profile papers”. But when you described the NYT action you failed to mention that the Sriver-Huber paper gave strong support to the results of the Emanuel and the Webster et al. paper (I presume the high-profile papers to which you refer) through the use of independent data. It seems to be one thing to report on the Klotzbach paper as having very interesting results but another to ignore on the substance of the Sriver-Huber paper. Yes, the Emanuel-Mann and the Sriver-Huber papers were mentioned by name but their content was not discussed nor their potential significance. What I find disappointing is that you are prepared to highlight Klotzbach’s results but not the results of papers that provide alternatives to Klotzbach’s conclusions. Please be assured that I care little whether or not you comment on any of the papers that you mentionr. Their relative significance will come out in the peer-reviewed wash. But if Prometheus is to be considered to provide a balanced persepective, then you should have commented on the science of the two papers mentioned in the NYT. To me that was at least as great an omission by Prometheus as the neglect of the omitted papers by the NYT. Cherrypicking at Prometheus?

Your article, and the subsequent comments on the NYT only referring to two articles and ignoring others (one of which you are a coauthor), was interesting but disappointing. I will not comment on the NYT’s choice or neglect of papers but I will question a similar “cherrypicking” on your blog. On May 1 you commented extensively on the Klotzbach paper, not then published by the way, noting that it questioned results from “high profile papers”. But when you described the NYT action you failed to mention that the Sriver-Huber paper gave strong support to the results of the Emanuel and the Webster et al. paper (I presume the high-profile papers to which you refer) through the use of independent data. It seems to be one thing to report on the Klotzbach paper as having very interesting results but another to ignore on the substance of the Sriver-Huber paper. Yes, the Emanuel-Mann and the Sriver-Huber papers were mentioned by name but their content was not discussed nor their potential significance. What I find disappointing is that you are prepared to highlight Klotzbach’s results but not the results of papers that provide alternatives to Klotzbach’s conclusions. Please be assured that I care little whether or not you comment on any of the papers that you mentionr. Their relative significance will come out in the peer-reviewed wash. But if Prometheus is to be considered to provide a balanced persepective, then you should have commented on the science of the two papers mentioned in the NYT. To me that was at least as great an omission by Prometheus as the neglect of the omitted papers by the NYT.

]]>
By: Benny Peiser http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3848&cpage=1#comment-4860 Benny Peiser Sat, 03 Jun 2006 18:03:03 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3848#comment-4860 John You make a valid point that resonates with much of what Roger and Kevin have been saying here for some time. As you stress, the WMO-guided statement on hurricanes and global warming remains, at least for the time being, rather open-minded on any possible linkage: “The research issues discussed here are in a fluid state and are the subject of much current investigation. Given time the problem of causes and attribution of the events of 2004-2005 will be discussed and argued in the refereed scientific literature. Prior to this happening it is not possible to make any authoritative comment.” It looks almost as if the statement intended to play for time and pass the buck. So here is the question: A key representative of the human-warming-causes-stronger-hurricanes theory, Kevin Trenberth, is the IPCC's coordinating lead author on the very subject matter, directing the focus, selection and outcome of the next IPCC assessment on hurricanes and global warming. A key representative of the natural-variability-drives-hurricane-intensity theory, Chris Lansea, has withdrawn from the IPCC assessment process in protest, stating that he "cannot in good faith continue to contribute to a process that I view as both being motivated by pre-conceived agendas and being scientifically unsound." http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/archives/science_policy_general/000318chris_landsea_leaves.html Now, given your almost blind faith in the IPCC process and its expertise, what would you say if one group of researchers, including leading experts such as Landsea, would question the validity of a biased panel and a prejudiced assessment? John

You make a valid point that resonates with much of what Roger and Kevin have been saying here for some time. As you stress, the WMO-guided statement on hurricanes and global warming remains, at least for the time being, rather open-minded on any possible linkage:

“The research issues discussed here are in a fluid state and are the subject of much current investigation. Given time the problem of causes and attribution of the events of 2004-2005 will be discussed and argued in the refereed scientific literature. Prior to this happening it is not possible to make any authoritative comment.”

It looks almost as if the statement intended to play for time and pass the buck. So here is the question:

A key representative of the human-warming-causes-stronger-hurricanes theory, Kevin Trenberth, is the IPCC’s coordinating lead author on the very subject matter, directing the focus, selection and outcome of the next IPCC assessment on hurricanes and global warming.

A key representative of the natural-variability-drives-hurricane-intensity theory, Chris Lansea, has withdrawn from the IPCC assessment process in protest, stating that he “cannot in good faith continue to contribute to a process that I view as both being motivated by pre-conceived agendas and being scientifically unsound.”
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/archives/science_policy_general/000318chris_landsea_leaves.html

Now, given your almost blind faith in the IPCC process and its expertise, what would you say if one group of researchers, including leading experts such as Landsea, would question the validity of a biased panel and a prejudiced assessment?

]]>
By: jfleck http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3848&cpage=1#comment-4859 jfleck Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:07:03 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3848#comment-4859 Steve - I'm not covering this debate (I live in and report on a landlocked state well above sea level), but were I to, I would talk to scientists on both sides of the issue, review the lively state of the scientific debate, suggest that some people with scientific standing believe there is an "emerging consensus" and that others do not, and offer the WMO statement as guidance to my readers. It's quite straightforward. When expert panel consensus reviews like the WMO statement exist and you abandon them and pick a side, you open up the debate to the sort of scientization that Sarewitz so ably documents.* It seems to me that the strength of your position in this debate, Steve, is the way it aligns with a strong consensus on the major issues associated with climate change, as articulated by the IPCC etc. As soon as you abandon that alignment on a question like this, you open up the field for your opponents to do the same on other questions, which is a recipe for gridlock. http://www.cspo.org/ourlibrary/articles/EnvironControv.htm Steve -

I’m not covering this debate (I live in and report on a landlocked state well above sea level), but were I to, I would talk to scientists on both sides of the issue, review the lively state of the scientific debate, suggest that some people with scientific standing believe there is an “emerging consensus” and that others do not, and offer the WMO statement as guidance to my readers. It’s quite straightforward.

When expert panel consensus reviews like the WMO statement exist and you abandon them and pick a side, you open up the debate to the sort of scientization that Sarewitz so ably documents.* It seems to me that the strength of your position in this debate, Steve, is the way it aligns with a strong consensus on the major issues associated with climate change, as articulated by the IPCC etc. As soon as you abandon that alignment on a question like this, you open up the field for your opponents to do the same on other questions, which is a recipe for gridlock.

http://www.cspo.org/ourlibrary/articles/EnvironControv.htm

]]>
By: Steve Bloom http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3848&cpage=1#comment-4858 Steve Bloom Sat, 03 Jun 2006 07:42:13 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3848#comment-4858 Speaking of institutions that have picked sides in the climate change debate, see http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/noaa-hill-briefing/ for a leaked NOAA Congrssional briefing memo on hurricanes. Right up front: "Question: The 2005 Atlantic hurricane season was one of the most active on record. Is global climate change responsible for this increased activity? "Answer: Available research indicates increased hurricane activity can be explained by natural cycles of hurricane activity driven by the Atlantic Ocean along with the atmosphere above it." This memo appears to have been written after the forced recantation of the NOAA statement falsely claiming that Bell and Chelliah's work amounted to a natural cycle theory. Draw your own conclusions. Speaking of institutions that have picked sides in the climate change debate, see http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/noaa-hill-briefing/ for a leaked NOAA Congrssional briefing memo on hurricanes. Right up front:

“Question: The 2005 Atlantic hurricane season was one of the most active on record. Is global climate change responsible for this increased activity?

“Answer: Available research indicates increased hurricane activity can be explained by natural cycles of hurricane activity driven by the Atlantic Ocean along with the atmosphere above it.”

This memo appears to have been written after the forced recantation of the NOAA statement falsely claiming that Bell and Chelliah’s work amounted to a natural cycle theory. Draw your own conclusions.

]]>
By: Steve Bloom http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3848&cpage=1#comment-4857 Steve Bloom Sat, 03 Jun 2006 00:46:13 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3848#comment-4857 John, that's an interesting approach. It seems to allow for full coverage without making any effort to understand the content of the science. So, if you has been covering relativity in about 1920, I suppose you would have told your readers that things were still unsettled? Were you to cover this story, an alternative approach might be to consider talking to all of the leading researchers in the field and seeing what they think. This is basically what the Nature reporter did, and you saw the results. Was that bad journalism? One can choose to wait for a formal consensus statement, but that's tantamount to saying that journalists can never report the actual state of the science to their readers (so long as the science is moving fast). Finally, you might try calling Kerry Emanuel and asking him if that statement still holds. John, that’s an interesting approach. It seems to allow for full coverage without making any effort to understand the content of the science. So, if you has been covering relativity in about 1920, I suppose you would have told your readers that things were still unsettled?

Were you to cover this story, an alternative approach might be to consider talking to all of the leading researchers in the field and seeing what they think. This is basically what the Nature reporter did, and you saw the results. Was that bad journalism?

One can choose to wait for a formal consensus statement, but that’s tantamount to saying that journalists can never report the actual state of the science to their readers (so long as the science is moving fast). Finally, you might try calling Kerry Emanuel and asking him if that statement still holds.

]]>
By: jfleck http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3848&cpage=1#comment-4856 jfleck Fri, 02 Jun 2006 19:59:57 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3848#comment-4856 Steve B asks: "an awful lot of people have begun to conclude that the Webster/Emanuel camp is right.... Why shouldn't journalists begin to draw the same conclusion?" The appropriate approach for a journalist is to look for two things - first, at the breadth of the literature, where the debate is (as you know) quite lively. The second is the sort of expert panels - IPCC, NAS, etc. - that attempt to sythesize for policymakers and the lay public the state of the science. In this case, the WMO statement to which Roger has referred many times reflects no such consensus. Steve B asks: “an awful lot of people have begun to conclude that the Webster/Emanuel camp is right…. Why shouldn’t journalists begin to draw the same conclusion?”

The appropriate approach for a journalist is to look for two things – first, at the breadth of the literature, where the debate is (as you know) quite lively. The second is the sort of expert panels – IPCC, NAS, etc. – that attempt to sythesize for policymakers and the lay public the state of the science. In this case, the WMO statement to which Roger has referred many times reflects no such consensus.

]]>
By: Steve Bloom http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3848&cpage=1#comment-4855 Steve Bloom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 03:58:23 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3848#comment-4855 P.S. - Anyone using that URL will need to delete the comma at the end. P.S. – Anyone using that URL will need to delete the comma at the end.

]]>