Comments on: Another Misattribution, Climate Scientists Silent http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3616 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:36:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Eli Rabett http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3616&cpage=1#comment-1852 Eli Rabett Fri, 07 Oct 2005 05:57:00 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3616#comment-1852 Actually Roger, I was quite calmly and rationally pointing out that you enjoy being on one side of an issue when you are supporting yourself and the other side when you are bashing others. Hanson was replying to an attack on his work, you are calling for others reply to attacks on your work. Your reply to the serial catowner is quite revealing. Pot, kettle, black. Actually Roger, I was quite calmly and rationally pointing out that you enjoy being on one side of an issue when you are supporting yourself and the other side when you are bashing others.

Hanson was replying to an attack on his work, you are calling for others reply to attacks on your work. Your reply to the serial catowner is quite revealing. Pot, kettle, black.

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By: Roger Pielke, Jr. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3616&cpage=1#comment-1851 Roger Pielke, Jr. Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:55:29 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3616#comment-1851 serial catowner- Thanks for posting. Your comment that "The fact that this statement might not be scientifically true is of no relevance; the NYT is not a scientist" underscores one of Dan Sarewitz's main points about the politicization of science - and that we see in the comments here - scientific truth matters a lot, when it is politically convenient, and when it is politically inconvenient, it doesn't seem to matter nearly as much. Officials in the Bush Administration should indeed be held to high intellectual standards, even if they are not scientists - but so too should everyone else, including me, you and the NYT. serial catowner-

Thanks for posting. Your comment that “The fact that this statement might not be scientifically true is of no relevance; the NYT is not a scientist” underscores one of Dan Sarewitz’s main points about the politicization of science – and that we see in the comments here – scientific truth matters a lot, when it is politically convenient, and when it is politically inconvenient, it doesn’t seem to matter nearly as much.

Officials in the Bush Administration should indeed be held to high intellectual standards, even if they are not scientists – but so too should everyone else, including me, you and the NYT.

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By: serial catowner http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3616&cpage=1#comment-1850 serial catowner Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:08:22 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3616#comment-1850 The NYT seems to have made a balanced statement, that most of the increased damage was due to increased development, and some of it due to increased strength of storms. The fact that this statement might not be scientifically true is of no relevance; the NYT is not a scientist. And who would want to be, if being a "scientist" involved a paralyzing inability to accept any statement as "true", regardless of the context. Normally, when presented with this demand for absolute certainty, in a context where it probably cannot be attained, I assume the author has some other, unspoken, thought on their mind. If the article referenced had been the NYT reporting on Amazonian butterflies, I would remain in a greater uncertainty about what that unexpressed thought might be. The NYT seems to have made a balanced statement, that most of the increased damage was due to increased development, and some of it due to increased strength of storms. The fact that this statement might not be scientifically true is of no relevance; the NYT is not a scientist.

And who would want to be, if being a “scientist” involved a paralyzing inability to accept any statement as “true”, regardless of the context.

Normally, when presented with this demand for absolute certainty, in a context where it probably cannot be attained, I assume the author has some other, unspoken, thought on their mind. If the article referenced had been the NYT reporting on Amazonian butterflies, I would remain in a greater uncertainty about what that unexpressed thought might be.

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By: Roger Pielke Jr. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3616&cpage=1#comment-1849 Roger Pielke Jr. Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:31:26 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3616#comment-1849 Eli- I welcome your passionate posts here on our site. But I do hope that you will strive for a bit greater accuracy in characterizing my work. Should scientists stay silent? Here is what I have said here: "I have received some comments asking whether or not I think that IPCC scientists should simply remain mute on issues of climate science or politics. The answer is “no”" http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/archives/climate_change/000344climate_science_and_.html And more recently in response to a commenter: "You characterize me as stating "Scientists, to maintain their `honest broker' status, should avoid commenting directly on policy issues." No. This is completely opposite of what I have written. Please have another look." I'm not sure where you get the Bill gray reference, but you can find some comments of mine here: http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/archives/climate_change/000536reader_request_comm.html Thanks again, and thanks for keeping your comments constructive. Eli- I welcome your passionate posts here on our site. But I do hope that you will strive for a bit greater accuracy in characterizing my work. Should scientists stay silent? Here is what I have said here:

“I have received some comments asking whether or not I think that IPCC scientists should simply remain mute on issues of climate science or politics. The answer is “no””

http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/archives/climate_change/000344climate_science_and_.html

And more recently in response to a commenter: “You characterize me as stating “Scientists, to maintain their `honest broker’ status, should avoid commenting directly on policy issues.” No. This is completely opposite of what I have written. Please have another look.”

I’m not sure where you get the Bill gray reference, but you can find some comments of mine here:

http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/archives/climate_change/000536reader_request_comm.html

Thanks again, and thanks for keeping your comments constructive.

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By: Eli Rabett http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3616&cpage=1#comment-1848 Eli Rabett Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:19:21 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3616#comment-1848 But I thought scientists like James Hansen were supposed to remain silent so as not to give novelists such as Michael Crichton a platform You are being selective in your angst again Roger. You might also not take William Gray as your touchstone. He is claiming that global temperatures will start to decrease in ten years or so, which when you think about it is the same thing that drives his comments about hurricanes. Fundamentally his extrapolation is based on a complete distain for climate modeling. To the extent that you credit the models with any skill, he is wrong. Gray at this point looks like an affirmation of the concept that new theories do not convince their opponents, but that the opponents eventually pass on. But I thought scientists like James Hansen were supposed to remain silent so as not to give novelists such as Michael Crichton a platform

You are being selective in your angst again Roger. You might also not take William Gray as your touchstone. He is claiming that global temperatures will start to decrease in ten years or so, which when you think about it is the same thing that drives his comments about hurricanes. Fundamentally his extrapolation is based on a complete distain for climate modeling. To the extent that you credit the models with any skill, he is wrong. Gray at this point looks like an affirmation of the concept that new theories do not convince their opponents, but that the opponents eventually pass on.

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By: Roger Pielke, Jr. http://cstpr.colorado.edu/prometheus/?p=3616&cpage=1#comment-1847 Roger Pielke, Jr. Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:49:09 +0000 http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheusreborn/?p=3616#comment-1847 The Washington Post does quite a bit better (Thanks SD!): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/30/AR2005093001583.html The Washington Post does quite a bit better (Thanks SD!):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/30/AR2005093001583.html

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